EFTA00064266¶
EFTA00064267¶
EFTA00064268¶
You know? I asked him, you know, are you telling me the truth? Is there anything that you would like to volunteer? You know, did you intentionally try to harm yourself? And at times, like, I didn’t try to harm myself. I don’t know what happened. I just got a drink of water, and next thing you know, I was on the floor.¶
MR. : Did you ask him if attempted to harm him?¶
: Yes.¶
MR. : And what did he say to that?¶
: And he said no.¶
MR. : And he said did not —¶
: Yes.¶
MR. : — try to harm him?¶
: He said he did not.¶
MR. : Okay.¶
MR. : Was there a noose found around his neck, at that point? Do you know?¶
: I think it was. I think it was. At the time. It was a rope, I want to say, or something to that effect. They had¶
brought down to the SIS Shop, that they found.¶
I can’t tell you that they found it around his neck because I can’t remember. To be honest with you.¶
MR. : And how did the C.O.s become aware that he had possibly tried to commit suicide?¶
To my knowledge, Mr.¶
is who alerted the officers, by banging on the door.¶
MR. : And when the officers found him, did they find a noose around his neck?¶
How did they find him, do you recall?¶
I can’t recall. I know that they found him on the floor. But I can’t recall if it was around his neck.¶
MR. : And Mr. Epstein stated that did not try to kill him.¶
Yes.¶
MR. : Except there was a noose.¶
Yes.¶
MR. : Did he mention if he made + noose himself, or how the noose came about?¶
No. He didn’t.¶
MR. : And what was your impression¶
I don’t know if it was, you know, looking back, I kind of felt, like, okay, was this, like, did he intentionally try to do something to get our attention? You know, then I leaned to, maybe he didn’t. You know? You have two inmates in the cell. And I’m, you know, I’m also looking at did, you know, did is telling me the truth. You know, I really can’t say what happened because you have, you know, Mr. Epstein saying, you know, no, he didn’t try to do anything to me, and I asked about them interacting. Do they talk? And he’s, like, yes, we talk.¶
You know, we’re cellmates. We talk. We read books. He, you know? So, it wasn’t no reason for me to believe that Mr. , you know, tried to harm him because Epstein didn’t give me that impression.¶
MR. : And was he placed on¶
EFTA00064269¶
EFTA00064270¶
EFTA00064271¶
EFTA00064272¶
EFTA00064273¶
EFTA00064274¶
EFTA00064275¶
EFTA00064276¶
: I would say no. If it says WAB, that’s what it is. I would assume that he’s not coming back.¶
MR. : Is there any reason for them to believe that, even though it showed WAB, that - that for them to believe that would be coming back?¶
MR. : Now, if, let’s say they’ve mentioned sometimes they bring inmates down to R&D, and the bus doesn’t come. Or they’re not going to court, and sometimes they come back up. How long does that process normally take?¶
: It happens. Hmm. I’ve seen¶
If you had a conversation about him needing a cellmate, that means - to me - you know that it was important for him to have one. And you knew that his - obviously - Mr. was leaving WAB. And Epstein needed a cellmate. So, or I feel, like, right then and there, the notification should have been made. Even though he’s in attorney conference, but his cellmate is leaving, lieutenant, we need a cellmate for him.¶
I should clarify that — come by then.¶
-
it be a couple of hours, before the inmates
-
will come back up.
MR. : And not 11:00. Just during their shift. At some point, if they left their shift at 2:00 p.m. without making a notification, should have they known by 2:00 p.m., at the very least, that he was not coming back?¶
notification, should or anybody in the SHU, at that point, at 11:00, notified the superior, hey, listen - supervisors - hey, listen, is gone, and Epstein is —¶
MR. : Okay. So, at some point, prior to 2:00 p.m., a notification should have been made?¶
MR. : And you mentioned that it should have been to the SHU Lieutenant.¶
Lieutenant is not there. And it should have been the ops lieutenant. Who was the ops lieutenant during that shift? The morning shift.¶
MR. : So, this is, they were brought down any time between 8:00 a.m. and 8:30 a.m.¶
MR. : So, when you say a couple hours, we’re talking about anywhere between 10:00 and 10:30 a.m.?¶
: Yeah. I’ve seen inmates come up later. You know, an hour and a half, you know, he didn’t -. He’s not leaving on a bus. Once they get everybody on the bus, they will go back up to Special Housing.¶
They normally would. And because they - I’m going to reach and say - they assumed he was leaving, because he didn’t come back —¶
MR. : Now, if the inmate was not brought back up to the SHU, let’s say by even 11:00 a.m., right? Because if they’re expecting that there is a possibility that the inmate might come back up, and it doesn’t happen by 11:00 a.m., should they have made a notification?¶
MR. : And he should have been notified, and what should have done?¶
: He should have notified, of course, his chain of command, which is the captain, hey, Epstein’s cellmate has left, and he needs a cellmate. And that, also, we would have told psychology, you know, Epstein’s cellmate left. He needs a cellmate because somebody vetted the cellmates. So, I would say, I guess, they would go back to that process of seeing who was a good fit for him.¶
MR. : And if - what is your understanding - if that notification was never made up the chain of command?¶
: What’s your question?¶
: Yeah.¶
MR. : What is your understanding, if they never made -? Was somebody at fault, in terms of -. I should clarify that. If that notification never got -. If never told the ops lieutenant, and the ops lieutenant never told the captain, right? When was the next time they would have caught onto the fact Epstein needed a cellmate?¶
EFTA00064277¶
EFTA00064278¶
EFTA00064279¶
EFTA00064280¶
EFTA00064281¶
MR. : But this time, our understanding is the round sheets were actually kept on the officer’s desks. On the desk out . So, not on the range. They all did it right from where the desk was. Do you know if that’s the case?¶
MR. : Okay. Do you know if there is maybe MCC didn’t have this practice, but do you know, as the BOP, as a lieutenant round that’s conducted in the SHU, and that the lieutenant that actually signs the round sheet, saying that they conducted the round in the SHU, do you know if BOP policy says that they’re supposed to go from cell, door to door, and that’s the reason why they put these sheets at the end of the ranges?¶
| 1 | empty, Epstein's down at attorney conference, |
| 2 | and isn't here, so there's no one in that |
| 3 | cell. Should have they been, you know, should have they known -? |
If you knew that on the count slip - I’m sorry - on the court roster that he was WAB, and you see Epstein downstairs, then if you’re paying attention, you would just -. That’s something you would have asked. Hey, we got a cellmate for him yet? Who he’s going with. That type of thing.¶
MR. : And just as far as clarification, do you know if BOP policy states where the count sheets, or the round sheets are supposed to be kept? Forget the fact that you have to look at it, but does it state that it should be either kept on the officer’s desk, or at the end of the -?¶
MR. : Okay. Do you have anything on the rounds and counts?¶
MR. : No. I guess I just, do you think if the lieutenants that did the rounds within the SHU, on August 9th, have any exposure to the fact that was gone, and should have they - when they did their rounds - should have they known that, hey, this cell is¶
I actually was reviewing the cameras from the SIS office, with one of the associate wardens. We were looking for an inmate, to see what time he was released, a cadre (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:30) inmate. We were looking to see what time he was released because I was trying to backtrack, because I was going to interview the inmate, with an OIG officer, about an incident. And I learned, he’s gone. And I said, gone where? Oh, his release date - which, he was scheduled to be released - so, that made me go back to look to see, well, let me see what time they released him. And we were trying to pinpoint when he got released, so we could get in touch with that halfway house. So, we - myself and the agent - was going to go to the halfway house, to interview him.¶
And upon me going back to the cameras, I¶
And upon me going back to the cameras, I said, wait a minute, we don’t have no cameras. I can’t go back. So, of course, I clicked on¶
EFTA00064282¶
EFTA00064283¶
EFTA00064284¶
EFTA00064285¶
EFTA00064286¶
EFTA00064287¶
EFTA00064288¶
EFTA00064289¶
EFTA00064290¶
EFTA00064291¶
EFTA00064292¶
EFTA00064293¶
EFTA00064294¶
EFTA00064295¶
EFTA00064296¶
EFTA00064297¶
EFTA00064298¶
EFTA00064299¶
EFTA00064300¶
EFTA00064301¶
EFTA00064302¶
EFTA00064303¶
EFTA00064304¶
EFTA00064305¶
EFTA00064306¶
EFTA00064307¶
| 169 | 170 |
| I think I've ever seen. It's like calligraphy. : Oh, really? I thought it was, like, chicken scratch and all over the place. MR. No. And once I saw it, I was, like, wow. That is pretty impressive. : Okay. MR. Okay. You want to end it? MR. Yeah. So, we've going to end the interview. The time is 11:19 a.m. on September 23rd, 2021. This is Special Agent I'm ending the interview. | CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Transcriber |
EFTA00064308¶