Grand jury testimony of an FBI task force detective in the Maxwell case, March 2021

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES GRAND JURY SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK UNITED STATES OF AMERICA -x -V- : January 19, 2021 Additional GHISLAINE MAXWELL (2018R01618) APPEARANCE S: x United States Courthouse Foley Square New York, New York March 29, 2021 10:05 a.m. States Attorney d States Attorney ^M inury Reporter FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	Q. Are you currently part of a federal task force?
	A. Yes.
3	Q. What task force?
4	A. The Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task
5	Force with the FBI.
6	What is your title on the task force? Q.
7	A. Task force officer.
8	Q. How long have you been a task force officer with
9	the FBI?
10	A. Since about 2017.
11	Q. Generally, what are your duties and
12	responsibilities on the task force?
13	A. We address cases of child sex-trafficking, adult
14	sex-trafficking, child pornography, and child enticement.
15	Q. Over the last, approximately, three years have you
16	been involved in an investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and
17	his associates, including an individual named
18	Ghislaine Maxwell?
19	A. Yes.
20	Q. During your investigation have you spoken with
21	other people, including other law enforcement officers?
22	A. Yes.
23	Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared Q•
24	by others, and transcripts of testimony in other court and
25	grand jury proceedings?
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1	A. Yes.
2	Q. Will your testimony today be based in part on
3	those conversations and documents that you have reviewed?
4	A. Yes.
5	Ladies and gentlemen, some of the MS.
6	testimony you are going to hear from Detective will
7	That means he is not going to testify only include hearsay.
8	from his own personal observations, he will also be
9	testifying about what other people have told him and what he
10	has read in documents.
11	Hearsay evidence, as you know, is admissible and
12	proper in these proceedings, and you are permitted to rely
13	on it in determining whether there is probable cause to
14	indict the defendant, but if you want to hear testimony from
15	other witnesses, or see particular documents, please let me
16	know, and I will make my best efforts to bring those before
17	you.
18	BY MS.
19	Q. over the course of your Detective
20	investigation has another member of the FBI task force
21	you’re a part of testified before a different grand jury
22	about the facts of this case?
23	A. Yes.
24	Q. I’d like to ask you to please pick up what should
25	be in front of you and marked as Grand Jury Exhibit 3. Do
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1	you recognize that?
9	A. Yes.
3	Q. Is this document a fair and accurate transcript of
4	testimony given by FBI Special Agent before a
5	different grand jury, on June 29, 2020?
6	A. Yes.
7	Q. I’d like to read back a portion of this
8	We will start at Page 2, Line 18. transcript. I will read
9	the questions, you read the answers.
10	Q. ”Where do you currently work?“
11	A. ”The Federal Bureau of Investigation.”
12	Q. ”What is your title?“
13	A. ”Special agent.”
14	Q. ”How long have you worked as a special agent?“
15	A. ”About three years now.”
16	Q. ”Where are you currently assigned?“
17	”I work on the Violent Crimes Against Children’s A.
18	Squad.”
19	”What are your duties and responsibilities as - Q.
20	special agent on that squad?“
21	A. ”We investigate crimes that have to do with child
22	sexual abuse material, sextortion, exploitation, and
23	enticement of minors, sex-trafficking.”
24	MS. You can stop there. I’ll now jump to
25	Page 4, line 13.
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. Q. “Have you participated in an investigation of Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “Yes, I have.” Q. “Have you spoken to other people, including other law enforcement officers about this investigation?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others regarding this case?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Is your testimony today based in part on those conversations with other law enforcement officers and documents that you have reviewed?” A. “Yes.” MS. Stepping out of the read back. At this point the AUSA provided the same hearsay instruction to the grand jury, at that time, as I just provided to you all. So that instruction applies with respect to Detective testimony the same way it applies to testimony. We can now go down to Page 5, line 17. BY MS. Q. we’ve placed on the desk in front of you a PowerPoint that is Grand Jury Exhibit 2 which we’re entering into the record. Do you recognize this?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_000002.28¶

03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. “Yes.” Q. “What is it?” A. “It’s a PowerPoint presentation to assist in testifying today.” Q. “Did you participate in preparing this Exhibit in connection with your testimony today?” A. “Yes, I did.” Q. “If you could please turn to the first slide. Who are the individuals depicted in these photographs?” A. “The picture on the left is Ghislaine Maxwell, and the picture on the right is Jeffrey Epstein with Ghislaine Maxwell.” Q. “Based on your participation in this investigation and your review of public source materials, have Maxwell and Epstein been photographed together many times over the years?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Based on your participation in this investigation and your review of public materials, where is Maxwell from?” A. “Maxwell was born in France, she grew up in United Kingdom, was educated in Oxford and is from a wealthy family.” Q. “Is she a citizen of France, the United Kingdom, and the United States?” A. “Yes.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	Q. ”How old is she currently?“
2	A. ”Fifty-eight.”
3	”Has the FBI investigated Maxwell and Epstein’: Q.
4	conduct with minors during the 1990s?“
5	A. ”Yes.”
6	Q. ”Generally speaking, what have you learned about
7	the relationship between Maxwell and Epstein during the
8	1990s?“
9	A. ”Epstein and Maxwell had a romantic relationship,
10	and she also worked for him; managing his homes, hiring and
11	firing individuals.”
12	”During that time period, was she one of his Q.
13	closest associates?“
14	A. ”Yes.”
15	Q. ”During the course of this investigation have you
16	learned where Epstein maintained properties in the 1990s?“
17	A. ”Yes.”
18	Q. ”Where did he maintain properties?“
19	A. ”New York, Palm Beach, and New Mexico.”
20	Q. ”Turning to the next slide, did he maintain an
21	address in Manhattan located at 9 East 71st Street?“
22	A. ”Yes.”
23	Q. ”Does this slide fairly and accurately depict that
24	residence?“
25	A. ”Yes.”
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4• “Can you please describe that property for the grand jury?” A. “It’s a seven-story home. It’s located near Central Park. It’s reportedly the largest residence in Manhattan.” Q. “Based on your participation in this investigation, did that house include a room that was used as a massage room?” A. “Yes, it did.” Q. “All right. We’ll talk more about that later but for now, moving on to the other properties. Did he maintain an address in Palm Beach, Florida, located at 358 El Brillo Way?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Turning to the next slide. Does this slide fairly and accurately depict the residence?” A. “Yes, it does.” Q. “Could you please describe that property for the grand jury?” A. “It’s a water-front estate. It has an in-ground pool and a detached dwelling, or pool house, on the property as well.” Q. “Aside — and from your participation in this investigation and your review of other materials, did that house include a room that was used as a massage room?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Q. “Yes.” “Turning to the next property. Did Epstein also own a ranch in New Mexico?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “And turning to the next slide, was that a property located at 49 Zorro Ranch Road in Stanley, New Mexico?” A. “Yes.” 4. “Looking at the photograph on this slide does this accurately depict that property?” A. “Yes, it does.” Q. “And we’ve been talking about the properties that Epstein owned during this time period. Did he also own a private jet?” A. 4• “Yes.” “Is it fair to say that he was a multi-millionaire during this time period? A. “Yes.” Q. “During the 1990s did Epstein have an employee, ■ who ran his house in Palm Beach?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “What was his job?” A. “His job was making sure that everything in the house ran smoothly. He referred — he described that Epstein liked to have his house run like a five-star hotel; FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	that everything had to be in its proper place. So he was
2	responsible for managing that.”
3	Q. ”Have you interviewed
4	A. ”Yes.”
5	Q. ”How many times?“
6	A. ”Twice.”
7	”And is the information you’re about to provide Q.
8	based on your interviews with
9	A. ”Yes.”
10	”Did Q. begin working for Epstein in the early
11	1990s?“
12	A. ”Yes, he did.”
13	”At the time Q. came to work for Epstein in
14	Palm Beach, was Epstein dating Ghislaine Maxwell at that
15	point?“
16	A. ”Not at that time.”
17	4• “Was it a few years before Epstein began dating
18	started working there?” Maxwell after
19	A. ”Yes.”
20	MS. I’m going to step out of the read
21	It sounds like the grand jurors are having difficulty back.
22	Are you having difficulty hearing me, the witness, hearing.
23	or both?
24	GRAND JURORS. The witness.
25	So Detective I’m going to ask MS.
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1	you to please keep your voice up. Try to shout into the
2	microphone. Can you pull the microphone toward you? Lift
3	it and pull it all the way up to you? Thank you. We left
4	off reading at Page 10, line 12.
5	BY MS.
6	Q. ”From what told you, how did
7	work change once Maxwell arrived on the scene?“
8	”I’ll’ described Epstein as being of more A.
9	pleasant to work with prior to Maxwell coming into the
10	Once she came into the picture, he said things picture.
11	He wasn’t allowed to be in the room became more secretive.
12	with guests, wasn’t allowed to talk with them, associate
13	with them; it became a different environment.”
14	MS. I’m going to ask you Detective
15	to take the microphone and try to put it right under where
16	your mouth would be when you’re reading because as you’re
17	looking down, you’re moving your mouth away from the
18	Picking back up at Page 10, microphone. Thank you.
19	line 20.
20	BY MS.
21	Q. ”You talked about some of the rules that were
22	placed, changing. Were there any rule changes about eye
23	contact once Maxwell began staying at the Palm Beach house?“
24	A. wasn’t allowed to make eye contact ”Yes.
25	with Epstein and others.”
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. We’re going to jump now to Page 11, Line 6. BY MS. Q. “Shifting gears. I want to talk to you about someone else that you’ve interviewed during this investigation. During the course of this investigation, have you participated in interviews with an individual named A. “Yes.” Q. “So for these purposes, I’m just going to refer t her as . Is that okay?” A. “Yes.” Q. “How many times have you interviewed ?” A. “Approximately five times.” Q. “If you could please just page through the next two slides in front of you? Are these photographs of II A. “Yes.” Q. “Is it your understanding that these photographs depict from approximately ages 13 to approximately 17?” A. “Yes, it does.” 4• “Okay. Let’s take a look at some of those photographs. I’m going to publish the next slide. ’s date of birth FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000235¶

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1	A. ”Yes.”
2	”Are these two photographs of ?” Q.
3	A. ”Yes, they are.”
4	Q. ”If you could turn to the second slide of
5	?It photographs, are these also photographs of
6	A. ”Yes.”
7	Q. ”Based on your participation in this investigation
8	and your interviews with , where was she living when
9	she was approximately 14 years old?“
10	”She was living in Palm Beach, Florida.” A.
11	Q. ”Who was she living with when she was 14?“
12	”Her mother and her siblings.” A.
13	Q. ”What was her whole life like at that time?“
14	”At that time her father had passed away the year A.
15	prior, so the family was struggling financially and having
16	some difficulties.”
17	’s father do before he passed away? Q. ”What did
18	What was his profession?“
19	A. ”He was involved in
20	.‘
21	Q. ?" "Was involved in
22	A. ”Yes, she was.”
23	Q. ”Were her siblings?“
24	A. ”Yes.”
25	Q. ”What kinds of were they involved in?”
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. “Singing. She was a singer.” Q. “Like, what kind of singer?” A. “Opera.” Q. “In the summer of 1994, how old was A. “She was 13 going on 14.” Q. “You testified earlier that her birthday was in . So did she turn 14 in A. “Yes.” Q. “What did she do that summer?” A. “She attended an arts camp at Interlochen Center for the Arts.” Q. “And is Interlochen summer arts program located in Michigan?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did meet Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell that summer?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Did she meet them at summer camp?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did she tell you about that?” A. “She said that she was sitting at a picnic table with friends when Epstein and Maxwell walked by. They stopped to talk to her, engaged her in conversation, asked her if she liked her classes; her teachers. During that conversation she found out that she was also from Palm Beach FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and that he said he gives scholarships to students.” Q. “How did they leave the conversation? Was there any contact information exchanged?” A. “They asked for Q. ‘s phone number.” “As part of your investigation have you attempted to gather records to corroborate that , Maxwell, and Epstein were all at that summer camp that summer?” A. “Yes.” Q. “If you could turn to the next slide, please. Have you obtained records from Interlochen for the summer of 1994?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And what are we looking at on this slide?” A. “This shows who — some of the individuals that were there, were present for that camp in ‘94. On here is Q. If “And have you investigated whether Maxwell and Epstein were also at Interlochen that summer of 1994 as described?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Based on your review of records from Interlochen, what is your understanding of Epstein’s relationship with Interlochen?” A. “My understanding was that he was a donor to the school.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “Did he make any substantial donations?” A. “He did.” Q. “Did he donate a lodge to the camp in the summer of 1994?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Did he have a long-standing relationship as a donor to Interlochen?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt of a letter from Interlochen to Epstein?” A. “Yes, it is.” Q. “And does this letter thank Epstein for donating a scholarship lodge?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Does it invite Epstein to visit in August of 1994?” A. “Yes.” Q. “In 1994 did Epstein have a private jet?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Have you obtained the flight logs for that -iet?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Do those logs include passenger lists and the airport code for the airports the plane flew into and out of?” A. “Yes.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	”Turning to the next slide. Is this a page of the Q.
2	flight logs that you reviewed?“
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”And on this excerpt of the flight logs, where the
5	red arrow is, is that a log entry showing an August 18, 1994
6	flight to an airport with the airport code TBC?“
7	A. ”Yes.”
8	”Is TBC the airport code for Cherry Capitol Q.
9	Airport in Traverse City, Michigan?“
10	”Yes, it is.” A.
11	”About how far is that airport from Interlochen by Q.
12	car?“
13	A. ”About 25 minutes, give or take.”
14	Q. ”And who were the listed passengers on this
15	flight?“
16	A. ”Jeffrey Epstein, (ph), and
17	(ph).“
18	Q. ”Turning to the next slide. Is it the same
19	excerpt just with a different arrow?“
20	A. ”Yes.”
21	So a few lines down is there a flight out Q. ”Okay.
22	of Traverse City just two days later, on August 20, 1994?“
23	A. ”Yes.”
24	Q. ”And do the passengers listed in the flight out of
25	Traverse City include the initials GM?”
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1	A. ”Yes, they do.”
2	Q. ”Are those Ghislaine Maxwell’s initials?“
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”Have you obtained any records from Interlochen to
5	indicate that Maxwell was at Interlochen in 1994?“
6	A. ”Yes.”
7	”If we could turn to the next slide. Q. Can you
8	please explain for the grand jury what we’re looking at on
9	this slide?“
10	A. ”This was a letter from Interlochen
11	explaining addressed to Maxwell telling her that they
12	had found an envelope in the lodge that they had been
13	staying.”
14	Q. ”All right. We were talking a few minutes ago
15	described meeting Maxwell and Epstein at about how
16	summer camp and you testified that she provided them with
17	her phone number. Did explain to you whether or not
18	she had any contact with Epstein or Maxwell after she
19	returned home to Palm Beach?“
20	A. ”Yes.”
21	Q. ”When was the next time that happened?“
22	A. ”Shortly thereafter.”
23	”And how did that occur?” Q.
24	A. ”She was invited to his house, so her and her
25	mother went to Epstein’s house to visit.”
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 20 Q. “What did tell you about that visit to Epstein’s house with her mother?” A. “She said it was — wait, can you rephrase that?” Q. “Of course. Did go to the house by herself or with her mother?” A. “With her mother.” Q. “Okay. When they went to the house what did they do there?” A. “They had tea.” Q. “Who was there when they had tea at the house?” A. “Epstein and Maxwell.” Q. “What did they discuss as they had tea?” A. “They just talked about her life and, you know, what she wanted to do.” Q. “Did Epstein make any offers?” A. “He said that he gives scholarships; he likes to mentor people.” Q. “How did ‘s mother react when Epstein said this?” A. “She was happy for her daughter and often times referred to Epstein as ‘s godfather.” Q. “After that occasion when they went over to the house, thereafter, did subsequently begin regularly spending time with Maxwell and Epstein at Epstein’s house in Palm Beach?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000242¶

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1	A. ”Yes.”
2	Q. ”Did that start when she was approximately age
3	14?“
4	A. ”Yes.”
5	”Did it continue until she was about age 17?“ 4•
6	A. ”Yes, it did.”
7	Q. ”And during those years does she regularly go over
8	to Epstein’s house in Palm Beach and spend time with Maxwell
9	and Epstein?“
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	”What happened in the summer of 1997 when Q.
12	was 17, about to turn 18?“
13	A. ”She moved to New York City.”
14	Q. ”Why did she move to New York City?“
15	A. ”She wanted to pursue a career in acting and
16	modeling.”
17	Q. ”We’ll talk about that in a moment, but for now, I
18	want to focus on the years you talked about, in Palm Beach,
19	from the ages 14 to 17, when would regularly go to
20	In the beginning, in the first few months Epstein’s house.
21	when she went there, what kinds of things did she do when
22	she would visit the house when Maxwell and Epstein were
23	there?“
24	He they would A. ”They’d hang out by the pool.
25	take her to the movies, take her shopping. She described
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1	that behavior as grooming.”
2	Q. ”When you say grooming, did she explain what she
3	meant by that?“
4	A. ”She meant that they were building a relationship
5	with her, giving her things, taking her places, and then
6	usually when the grooming happens, an offender will once
7	they gain that trust they will make their relationship
8	turn sexual.”
9	Q. ”Now you testified just a moment ago that
10	described to you that she felt at this time period they were
11	grooming her, is that right?“
12	A. ”Yes.”
13	Q. ”Is that something that she realized at the time
14	when she was 14, or is that something she’s described to you
15	now?“
16	A. ”Something she’s described now. She didn’t
17	realize that at the time.”
18	Q. ”So we’ll talk a little bit more about grooming in
19	a moment, but just to give context, are you familiar with
20	the term grooming based on your experience investigating
21	crimes involving sexual exploitation of minors?“
22	A. ”Yes.”
23	Q. ”Generally speaking, you were touching on this a
24	moment ago, but if you could just explain it in full, what
25	is grooming?”
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	A. ”Grooming is when someone builds a relationship
2	with a child. They will find a vulnerability or a need and
3	then they work on gaining that child’s trust. And then
4	often times gaining a parent’s trust. Once they have that
5	trust, they show that in ways that they can care about them;
6	like giving them gifts and promises. And then once that’s
7	established, they then turn the relationship sexual; often
8	times, making sexual comments and normalizing the behavior.”
9	”Now during these visits that you’ve been Q.
10	describing, that told you about, did say whether
11	Epstein ever gave her anything?“
12	A. ”Yes, she did.”
13	Q. ”What did he give her?“
14	A. ”He gave her cash. Sometimes he’d tell her to
15	give the cash to her mom because he knew that they needed
16	it. He paid for her voice lessons as well.”
17	Q. ”Now you were describing how has
18	characterized these visits now, but based on your
19	conversations with her, at the time did she feel that these
20	visits were strange at all?“
21	A. ”She thought they were strange, but Maxwell
22	normalized it for her. She was like a cool, older sister
23	and made comments like, this is what grownups do.”
24	Q. ”You used the phrase cool, older sister. Is that
25	a phrase that used to describe how she felt about
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1	Maxwell at the time, and what Maxwell was like?“
2	A. ”Yes. Those are her words.”
3	”Did there come a time these visits Q.
4	saw Maxwell topless by the pool?“
5	A. ”Yes.”
6	Q. ”What did she tell you about that?“
7	A. ”She was a little taken back, but Maxwell just
8	acted normal.”
9	Q. ”Did tell you about an incident several
10	months into this arrangement when she was alone with Epstein
11	in the pool house?“
12	A. ”Yes.”
13	Q. ”And when they were alone together, did Epstein
14	what she wanted to do with her life?“ ask
15	A. ”He did.”
16	Q. ”What did she say?“
17	A. ”She said she wanted to be an actress and n
18	model.”
19	Q. ”How did Epstein respond?“
20	A. ”He told her that he was best friends with the
21	Told her that she would have to owner of Victoria’s Secret.
22	have photographs taken and that she had to be comfortable in
23	her underwear and not be a prude. When she was asked what
24	she meant by that, he pulled her into his lap and
25	masturbated.”
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03/29/2021 95 1 Q• “What was her reaction?” 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. “She felt paralyzed. She froze.” Q. “After this incident did ‘s encounters with Epstein begin to include sexual contact?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Over time did the sexual abuse escalate?” A. “It did.” Q. “From what she’s described to you, did the abuse include Epstein digitally penetrating A. “Yes.” Q. “Did it include Epstein using a vibrator on her?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she describe to you that there were times when Epstein would direct to massage him while he masturbated?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did explain to you what her memories are like of the abuse?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did she say about that?” A. “She said that it happened so often that it al kind it all runs together for her. That it’s hard to separate out some of the different instances of abuse.” Q. “You were describing how explained to you that the abuse began. Did that occur, based on what FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	26 03/29/2021
1	told you, within the first year that she met Epstein and
2	Maxwell?“
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”Now did also describe to you that once this
5	abuse started Epstein would also bring her into his massage
6	room in his house?“
7	A. ”Yes.”
8	”And were there times, where he did this, where Q.
9	there were other women present, including Maxwell?“
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	Q. ”Was abused during those episodes?“
12	A. ”Yes, she was.”
13	Q. and ”During these group encounters what were
14	the adult women wearing?“
15	A. ”They were usually just in their underwear.”
16	”Once they were all in the massage room, how would Q.
17	these episodes generally start?“
18	”They would generally start with one of the girls A.
19	massaging Epstein. was usually massaging his feet.
20	Maxwell was kind of teasing the other girls. She’d grab the
21	girl’s breasts, and she would direct the girls on what to
22	do.”
23	Q. ”When these episodes would start, in general, was
24	Epstein generally lying face down on the massage table?“
25	A. ”Yes.”
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03/29/2021 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “What would happen as things progressed, generally speaking, from what she described to you?” A. “When Epstein would decide he was kind of done with the regular massage, he would turn over on his back, and he’d grab whichever girl he wanted to, either, touch him or whatever girl he wanted to touch.” Q. “Did these episodes include sex acts that over time, in various instances, included Epstein masturbating, Epstein receiving oral sex, and Epstein engaging in intercourse?” A. “Yes.” Q. “You were describing for a moment what tos, you about Maxwell’s role during these group encounters. Would Maxwell sometimes guide the women and give instructions about what to do?” A. “Yes, she would.” Q. “What would typically do during these episodes?” A. “She would try not to look at Maxwell because she gave off that sister-vibe, so it felt weird for her. She would try to be invisible in the room so they would ignore her as much as possible.” Q. “In the beginning, when ‘s approximately 16 or 15, would she generally begin by just massaging Epstein’s feet?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000249¶

	03/29/2021 2R
1	A. ”Yes.”
2	”Is that something she was told to do?” Q.
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	”Did she you mentioned that she tried to be Q.
5	invisible was I believe that was your testimony?“
6	A. ”Yes.”
7	Q. ”And over time has she described to you that over
8	time she believed she became more involved in the sexual
9	activity which varied in each encounter?“
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	Q. ”Were there times let me rephrase that. How
12	did you touched on this for a moment, but just to be
13	clear how did describe Maxwell’s attitude during
14	these incidents?“
15	A. ”It was very casual; she acted like this was
16	normal. She gave off that vibe to her and yeah.”
17	Q. ”Did that make her feel more comfortable with what
18	was happening?“
19	”It did.” A.
20	Q. ”Was sometimes fully nude during these
21	episodes?“
22	A. ”Yes.”
23	Q. ”And during these episodes did the abuse include
24	’s breasts?” Epstein touching
25	A. ”Yes.”
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 29 Q. “Did it include directing to touch Epstein’s genitals?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Beginning when ‘s approximately 14, does she begin to travel with Epstein and Maxwell to New York City on occasion?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Was that to the property you testified about earlier; the townhouse on the upper-east side?” A. “Yes.” Q. “When traveled to New York City, did she stay in Epstein’s townhouse in New York City? A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Did she recall that Maxwell and Epstein took her shopping on one of her early trips to New York City?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she remember them buying her anything?” A. “She recalled them buying her white cotton underwear. Her description was that they were like little girl’s underwear.” Q. “From ages 14 to 17 did Epstein ask to periodically fly to New York for weekends at that townhouse in New York?” A. “I’m sorry, say it again?” Q. “You testified that she began travelling to FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	New York City at age 14. Did she then periodically travel
2	to New York City, in a similar manner, from ages 14 to 17?“
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”Were there times, when she travelled on those
5	trips, when she flew on Epstein’s private jet?“
6	A. ”Yes.”
7	”Did she also sometimes fly commercially?” Q.
8	A. ”Yes, she did.”
9	Q. ”Was Maxwell sometimes present on the trips to New
10	York?“
11	A. ”Yes.”
12	Q. ”You testified earlier that was sexually
13	abused in Palm Beach. Did she describe to you that she was
14	also sexually abused on these trips to New York?“
15	A. ”Yes, she did.”
16	Q. ”Did Maxwell encourage to go on these
17	trips?“
18	A. ”Yes.”
19	what did Q. ”What does tell you about
20	her memory of how these trips were arranged?“
21	A. ”She recalled that Maxwell was usually the one
22	that would schedule her flights. If she was flying
23	commercially she would schedule the flights, sometimes
24	calling her mother to schedule.”
25	”Was that the general impression of how they were Q.
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03/29/2021 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 arranged?” A. “Yes.” Q. “In addition to the trips to New York City you just described, did also remember travelling, at least once, to Epstein’s ranch in New Mexico?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Does she remember whether or not she was sexually abused in New Mexico?” A. “She couldn’t recall. She couldn’t remember.” Q. “In general, how would get to the airport in Florida when she would fly on Epstein’s jet; what did she describe to you?” A. “Usually a driver; one of Epstein’s drivers would pick her up from her house and take her to the airport.” Q. “Now you testified earlier that you reviewed flight records for Epstein’s private jet, is that correct?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And have you reviewed records from the 1990s to see if there — whether there’s a person named listed on the records?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt from those records?” A. “Yes, it is.” Q. “And does the red arrow point to does the red FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 32 1 arrow point to a November 11th, 1996 flight?” “Yes, it does.” 2 Α. 3 “And does this say — does this flight log reflect ο. 4 that it was a flight from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, 5 New Jersey?” “Yes.” 6 Α. 7 “Is there a private airfield in Teterboro, ο. 8 New Jersey?” 9 “Yes, there is.” Α. “What’s it called?” 10 ο. “Teterboro Airport.” 11 Α. 12 “Are the passengers listed on this entry JE?” Q. 13 “Yes.” Α. “Are the — do the entries also include 14 ο. 15 (ph) plus friend, Jeff Shamf’s (ph), family, 16 ?” (ph), (ph), (ph), and 17 “Yes.” Α. 18 ο. “Was , based on your awareness of ‘s date of birth and the date of this flight, was 19 16 on 20 the date of this flight?” 21 “Yes, she was.” Α. “Turning to the next slide. You testified earlier 22 ο. 23 about Teterboro Airport. What are we looking at on this slide?” 24 25 “This is directions from Teterboro Airport to Α. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Epstein’s residence here in Manhattan.” Q. “So based on your review of this map, if someone were to fly into Teterboro and travel to New York City, would they — would the most natural route be to travel to Teterboro Airport and crossing into New York through Manhattan?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Turning to the next slide. Is this also an excerpt from the flight records that you’ve reviewed?” A. “Yes, it is.” Q. “And does this show a May 9, 1997 flight from Teterboro, New Jersey to Santa Fe, New Mexico?” A. “Yes, it does.” Q. “And are the passengers listed on this log JE, GM, and ? II A. “Yes.” Q. “Based on your knowledge of ‘s birthdate and the date of this flight, would have been 16 on the date of this flight?” A. “Yes, she would have been.” Q. “Turning to the next flight — slide. Is this also an excerpt from the flight records?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And does the red arrow point to a flight entry on May 3, 1998?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNY_00000255¶

03/29/2021 34 A. “Yes, it does.” 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “Based on the airport codes, did this reflect that there is a flight on that date from Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, New Jersey?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And are the passengers listed on this log JE, GM, ET, (ph), , Glenn (ph), A. “Yes.” (ph) ?” (ph), (ph), Manny Q. “Based on your knowledge of ‘s birthday and the date of this flight, would date?” A. “Yes.” Q. have been 17 on this “Am I correct that you testified earlier that in addition to sometimes flying on Epstein’s private jet, she also travelled on commercial airlines, is that right?” A. “Yes, it is.” Q. “Based on your review of these flight logs, does every flight entry list the name of every single passenger; or are there sometime when a passenger is noted female?” A. “There’s times where a passenger is just noted female.” Q. “I’m going to walk — talk to you about two examples of that. Turning ahead two slides. Looking at Slide 18, does this reflect a January 3rd, 1995 flight where FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the flight log says JE, two females?” A. “Yes, it does.” Q. “And do the two entries below, also, just list female next to the initials JE?” A. “Yes, they do.” Q. “Turning to the next slide, Slide 19. Is this another example of an entry like that; focusing on the entry on February 12, 1995?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Does that entry also say, female?” A. “Yes, it does.” Q. “Now, you testified that sometimes flew on commercial airlines and that arrangements for her travel were made for her to fly commercially for these trips, is that right?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Have you been able to obtain commercial flight records?” A. “We tried. We were not able to obtain those records.” Q. “Why is that?” A. “Airlines do not keep records past a certain year.” Q. “Does recall group sexualized massages involving Epstein and Maxwell, in both the New York and FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000257¶

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 36 Florida residences, during the time period we’ve been talking about?” A. “Yes.” Q. “You testified earlier about the time that Epstein and Maxwell would spend together and the activities that they were involved in. During this time period did have occasions to talk with Maxwell?” A. “She — I’m sorry, can you ask the question again?” Q. “During the beginning when she was 14, when she began spending time with Epstein and Maxwell, and through the years, did often have conversations with Maxwell about her life?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did they talk about that often?” A. “They did.” Q. “Did Maxwell ask about her family, her classes, and other aspects of her life?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “You testified earlier, just before she turned 18, moved to New York City, is that right?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she go to school there in New York City her senior year?” A. “Yes, she did.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNYJKONn58¶

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	38 03/29/2021
1	with Epstein?“
2	A. ”Yes.”
3	”What was the nature of their contact like during Q•
4	that time period?“
5	A. ”During this time he was still sexually abusing
6	her.”
7	Q. ”Did that continue to occur at his townhouse in
8	Manhattan that year?“
9	A. ”Yes, it did.”
10	”What happened at the end of her senior year of Q.
11	high school?“
12	A. ”She moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career in
13	acting.”
14	Q. ”Did she get a job as an actress when she turned
15	18?“
16	A. ”She did.”
17	Q. ”Has lived in Los Angeles and worked as an
18	actress on television ever since then?“
19	A. ”Yes.”
20	Q. ”After she moved to Los Angeles, did she continue
21	being in touch with Epstein?“
22	”For a short period of time.” A.
23	Q. ”Did she ultimately break contact with him?‘
24	A. ”Yes, she did.”
25	”Is Q. currently pursuing a civil lawsuit
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03/29/2021 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 against Maxwell and Epstein’s estate?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Have you talked with about whether, when she was a teenage girl and all of this was happening, whether she told anyone that she was being sexually abused?” A. “Yes. She said she didn’t tell anyone. She felt like she couldn’t. She — the — nothing was talked about outside of that room, so it made it so that she couldn’t talk about it. And then she also — her mother is Middle Eastern, and her mother raised her that women are supposed to do what they’re told even if someone is beating you. When she was 13 and her father passed, she, she went to a guidance counselor at school to talk about it, and her mother found out about it and smacked her. She felt like she couldn’t talk to anyone about it.” Q. “Did ‘s mother encourage her to accept Epstein’s financial assistance?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Have you become aware that in 2005 police officers from the Palm Beach Police Department executed search warrant at Epstein’s house at the El Brillo Way address in Palm Beach?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Have you reviewed some of the materials seized during the search?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	40 03/29/2021
1	A. ”Yes.”
2	Q. ”Did they find massage tables and sex toys?“
3	A. ”Yes, they did.”
4	”Did they find any photographs of Q.
5	A. ”Yes.”
6	Q. ”Was one of the photographs signed by
7	A. ”Yes, it was.”
8	Q. ”Did it say,
9
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	, did Q. tell ”During your interviews with
12	you how she felt about Epstein and Maxwell in the 90s when
13	she was a young girl?“
14	A. ”She did. She expressed that she felt like they
15	loved her. She felt they were her family; that they
16	supported her, and that they felt like she was made to
17	feel that she was needed to be grateful to them.”
18	Q. ”Okay. Did she tell you that she felt like they
19	were trying to help her?“
20	A. ”Yes.”
21	”Have you talked with about how she feels Q.
22	about this now?“
23	A. ”Yes.”
24	Q. ”What was ’s demeanor like when she described
25	to you what Epstein and Maxwell had done to her?”
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03/29/2021 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. “She was upset. She recognized that now. It’s affected her life to a great degree. She’s struggled in relationships with opening up to people and trusting people; both personal and professional relationships.” Q. “Did she tell you that she struggled to tell anyone what had happened to her for most of her adulthood?” A. “Yes.” Q. “When was the first time you interviewed A. “Last fall.” Q. “Was that the first time she ever reported this to law enforcement?” A. “Yes, it was.” Q. “Now you testified earlier about your interviews with who worked at Epstein’s Palm Beach house. Did he remember a girl named coming to the house during that time?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Did he recall , Maxwell, and Epstein meeting in the Palm Beach house together?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What was his understanding of why there?” A. “He thought that Epstein was helping her. That’s what Epstein had told him, and had told him that Epstein was helping her.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNYJX0000263¶

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 42 Q. “Did he ever observe Epstein interacting with physically?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did he see?” A. “He saw Epstein kiss ‘s cheek and pat her on the bottom.” Q. “Did he have any knowledge about what was happening with Epstein or Maxwell when he wasn’t present?” A. “He didn’t.” Q. “Did ever recall picking up from her house?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And when he would pick her up from her house, would he then bring her back to the Palm Beach house?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did he remember who, in general, would tell him to pick up from her house?” A. “Maxwell would be the one to tell him to pick her up.” Q. “Did he recall ever driving to the movies?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did he tell you about that?” A. “That would usually be Epstein, Maxwell, and ; they would go to the movies, and it would usually be late at night.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000264¶

	43 03/29/2021
1	Q. ”Did he tell you about what his memory was about
2	how old was?“
3	A. ”He said she was young, and that he knew that
4	because he had picked her up from school, and that he knew
5	she was too young to drive.”
6	Q. ”Switching gears. I want to talk to you about a
7	different aspect of your interviews with Based
8	on what he told about his job duties, were there ever times
9	where he would have to clean Epstein’s massage room?“
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	Q. ”What did he tell you about that?“
12	”He said that he found sex toys in the massage A.
13	room, and he had to wash them afterwards.”
14	Q. ”Aside from those experiences, was he aware it
15	there were any sex toys in the house?“
16	A. There was a basket of sex toys that were ”Yes.
17	kept in Maxwell’s closet.”
18	Q. ”Did stop working for Epstein in
19	approximately 2002?“
20	A. ”Yes.”
21	Q. ”Was he told that he was being replaced?“
22	A. ”Yes.”
23	Q. ”And was he generally aware that the person who
24	replaced him was much younger?“
25	A. ”Yes.”
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 44 Q. “Did tell you that a few months after he left working for Epstein he became suicidal because of issues in his marriage?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did he tell you that he went to Epstein’s house and tried to take Epstein’s gun?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Did he tell you that it’s worth several thousand dollars?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did Epstein discover this and confront him about it?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Did admit to Epstein and the police what he had done?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did Epstein also tell the police his gun was missing?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Were there any charges filed?” A. “No.” Q. “Was he ever arrested?” A. “I don’t believe so.” Q. incident?” “And did Epstein pursue any charges about this FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 4? A. “No. He didn’t pursue anything.” Q. “Have you interviewed one of Epstein’s former pilots?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Is that pilot named David Rodgers?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Was he one of the pilots for Epstein’s private jet in the 1990s?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did he remember travelling on the jet in the 90s?” A. “He remembered her travelling, but he didn’t remember specifics.” Q. “So just to be clear, is your testimony that he didn’t remember the specific dates of the flights, but he remembered her travelling on the jet during the 1990s?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And did he remember specifically as a person who travelled?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did you discuss with him the flight records that we talked about earlier that lists a person named as a passenger?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did he have a specific memory of those exact FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 47 they were in high school — about at least one trip to New York City that she took with Epstein?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did he remember describing Epstein’s townhouse in Manhattan?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And does he remember talking often about Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Now based on your interviews with ■, did he tell you whether he knew back then, when they were in high school, whether was being sexually abused by Epstein?” A. “He didn’t know back then.” Q. “Did ■ ever meet Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “What did he remember about that?” A. “He remembered Epstein, Maxwell, and being near a movie theatre, and he was approximately 16 at the time and would have been 15, and just the little bit of interaction they had. And then after that, had told him that Maxwell had said something to the effect of, I could teach a thing or two.” Q. “Is that something that he remembers telling him back then, that Maxwell said?” A. “Yes.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000269¶

03/29/2021 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “What did her older sister do?” A. “Her older sister lived — worked for Epstein.” Q. “Where did she work for Epstein?” A. “Here in New York.” Q. “Did there come a time, in approximately December 1995, when had a phone conversation with her sister about travelling to New York City?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did they discuss?” A. “They discussed her coming to New York and meeting Epstein.” Q. “What did her sister tell about why she should meet Epstein?” A. “She said that he could help her with her college.” Q. “And did she say — does the sister say whether the sister wanted her to meet Epstein, or did she say whether Epstein wanted to meet A. “Epstein wanted to meet Q. “Now let me just pause here. You testified that this happened in approximately December of 1995. Just for context, the years that we were talking about with , was that 1994 through 1997?” A. “Yes.” Q. “So is this approximately the same time period FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 50 while what you described telling you happened?” A. “Yes.” Q. “So in January of 1996 did fly on a commercial airline to New York City to spend a weekend with her sister and meet Jeffrey Epstein?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she tell you that?” A. “Yes.” Q. “During the trip did tell you that she met Epstein at his townhouse in New York City?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Did she tell you that Epstein discussed her plans for college applications and offered to help her?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What was • s first impression of Jeffrey Epstein?” A. “She was very impressed by him.” Q. “What did she — what was her impression, based on this conversation, of what Epstein was going to do for her?” A. “That he was going to help her with her future plans for college.” Q. “During that trip to New York City did she stay at Epstein’s townhouse or at her sister’s apartment?” A. “Her sister’s apartment.” Q. “During that trip did she tell you that she saw FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 51 Epstein a second time when he took and her sister to the movies?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did she tell you happened at the movies?” A. “She said that they were sitting in the theatre and Epstein was between and her sister, and Epstein put his hand on her leg; he rubbed her arm and held her hands — held hands with her.” Q. “From what she told you, what was her impression about whether her sister could see what was going on?” A. “She felt like her sister couldn’t see.” Q. “What was her reaction to this happening?” A. “She was uncomfortable.” Q. “After the movie did she tell her sister what hac happened?” A. “No, she didn’t.” Q. “Did she say why not?” A. “She said that she knew , her sister, really liked Epstein and that Epstein could help them. So she didn’t tell her.” Q. “After this trip did go back home to 7” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did Epstein contact her afterwards?” A. “Yes.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 52 Q. “Did he discuss with her, her ongoing college plans?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Did he invite her to a weekend at his ranch in New Mexico in the spring of 1996?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Was she 16 at the time?” A. “Yes, she was.” Q. “From what she told you, what was impression of who would be on this trip to New Mexico?” A. “She knew Maxwell would be there.” Q. “Did she — was she told anyone else was going to be present during this trip?” A. “She said that there would be like other students her — kids her age.” Q. “And what was her understanding of who these other kids were and why they would be there? Sorry, let me —” A. “Rephrase.” Q. “Rephrase that question. You testified that she was told that on this trip that there would be other students. Was she under the impression that there would be other students like her on the trip who were also being mentored by Epstein?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Now you testified just a moment ago that she was FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 53 also told that Maxwell would be there. Are you referring to Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “Yes.” Q. “At the point that she was told that Ghislaine Maxwell would be on this trip, had she ever met Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “No, she hadn’t.” Q. “Had she heard her sister talk about Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “Yes.” Q. “How did — from what she described to you — how did her expectation that Maxwell would be on this trip make her feel about the trip?” A. “It made her comfortable. Her sister had talked highly of Maxwell.” Q. “Did tell you that she flew to New Mexico that spring when she was 16?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she meet Ghislaine Maxwell when she arrived in New Mexico?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “How did she describe Maxwell’s demeanor and attitude when she met her?” A. “She described Maxwell as being very charming. She gave her a tour of the house, and Maxwell took FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	03/29/2021 94
1	shopping which made her feel special.”
2	Q. ”What does she remember talking about with
3	Ghislaine Maxwell?“
4	A. ”They talked about school, homework, trips.”
5	Q. ”Did she talk with her about applying to college?“
6	A. ”Yes.”
7	Q. ”Did she talk about her classes in high school?“
8	A. ”Yes.”
9	Q. ”Did she talk with her about the homework that she
10	had to do that weekend?“
11	A. ”Yes.”
12	Q. ”Did she talk with Maxwell about her family?“
13	A. ”Yes.”
14	Q. ”Did she talk with her about her home life and
15	living with her mother?“
16	A. ”Yes.”
17	Q. ”From what told you, when she got there, who
18	else was at the ranch besides Ghislaine Maxwell and
19	Jeffrey Epstein?“
20	”It was just them.” A.
21	Q. ”Was it just the three of them there the entire
22	weekend of the visit?“
23	A. ”Yes.”
24	Q. ”Were there any other school kids there?“
25	A. ”No.”
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03/29/2021 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “When they were at the ranch, from what to_ you, did Maxwell say anything to about massages?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she say anything about — to her about foot massages?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did tell you about that?” A. “Maxwell told to give Epstein a foot massage and then showed her and instructed her on how to do it. was a little uncomfortable, but Maxwell was joking around so she just followed her lead.” Q. “Did tell you what Maxwell and Epstein — took her to the movies that weekend?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did she tell you about that trip to the movies?” A. “She said that when they went outside the theatre Maxwell was joking around and pulled Epstein’s pants down a little bit. And then once they went inside the theatre, Epstein, when they were sitting down, touched ‘s leg, and rubbed her arm, held her hand. And that this time he — felt — he wasn’t trying to hide it from Maxwell. Q. “What was ’ s reaction to all of this?” A. “She was uncomfortable.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	Q. ”During the same weekend was there another
2	occasion when Maxwell talked about massages?“
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”What happened?“
5	”Maxwell had asked if she had ever had a A.
6	massage, and Maxwell told her she could give her one.
7	was on her back, and Maxwell pulled the sheet down
8	exposing her chest; she was nude from the top up and
9	proceeded to massage around her chest and breast area.”
10	Q. ”From what told you when she was describing
11	to you what you just described to the grand jury, how did
12	she feel while this was happening?“
13	A. ”She felt really uncomfortable.”
14	Q. ”Did also tell you about an incident that
15	happened one morning when she was in New Mexico?“
16	A. ”Yes.”
17	”What did she tell you happened?“ 4.
18	A. ”She said that she was in bed, and Epstein came
19	into the room and told her that he wanted to cuddle. So he
20	laid down next to her and spooned her. She told him that
21	she had to go to the bathroom to get out of the situation.”
22	Q. ”What was her reaction to that, when Epstein got
23	into her bed?“
24	A. ”She felt uncomfortable. She didn’t know what to
25	do.”
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 Q. “Did go back home to when the weekend was over?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “Did she tell anyone, when she got home, about what had happened?” A. “No.” Q. “Is that for the same reason you described earlier?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did Epstein end up paying for to go on trip to Thailand that summer?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did have any contact with Maxwell or Epstein after that trip?” A. “Not that she recalled.” Q. “When you interviewed , what was her demeanor like when she described her interactions with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell?” A. “She became upset and emotional.” Q. “Is currently pursuing a civil lawsuit against Maxwell and Epstein’s estate?” A. “Yes, she is.” Q. “What does do for a living now?” A. “She’s a psychologist who works with trauma victims.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000279¶

	58 03/29/2021
1	Q. ”During the course of this investigation have you
2	interviewed someone named
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”For today’s purposes I’m just going to refer to
5	. How many times have you interviewed her as
6	, approximately?“
7	A. ”Approximately three times.”
8	Q. ”Turning to the next slide. Is this a photograph
9	of that she provided to you?“
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	Q. ”And did she tell you that this was taken when she
12	was in approximately 16 or 17 years old?“
13	A. ”Yes.”
14	”Is ’s date of birth Q.
15	A. ”Yes.”
16	Q. grow up in England?" "Did
17	A. ”Yes, she did.”
18	Q. ”Did she tell you that there came a point where
19	she met Ghislaine Maxwell when she was about 17?“
20	A. ”Yes.”
21	Q. ”How did she tell you that they met?“
22	”She said they met through a mutual friena.” A.
23	”Did she tell you that this would have happened in Q.
24	around 1994 or 1995?“
25	A. ”Yes.”
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03/29/2021 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “And is that within the same time period that we’ve been talking about today?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What happened after she was introduced to Ghislaine Maxwell, from what she told you?” A. “She said Maxwell treated her like they were sisters. Her quote was ‘like naughty school girls’ is how Maxwell treated with her.” Q. “Did she tell you that Maxwell seemed to immediately take an interest in her?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she tell you that they began spending time together in London?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And just to be clear was Maxwell in her thirties while this is happening?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did Maxwell — did ever remember Maxwell ever talking about having a boyfriend named Jeffrey Epstein?” A. “Yes.” Q. “What did she tell about that?” A. “Maxwell told that Epstein was going to like her.” Q. “Did there come a time when she was 17 that FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 rn described that Maxwell introduced her to Jeffrey Epstein?” A. “Yes.” Q. “How did she describe that occurring?” A. “Epstein had flown into London. He was at Maxwell’s residence in London, and Maxwell had called over. So went over, and when she got there Maxwell was saying to Epstein, kind of — the words used was — giving him a resume of her attributes, saying, she’s so pretty, she’s so strong; and then Maxwell asked hel to give Epstein a massage.” Q. “Now you’ve testified just a moment ago that Maxwell — that described to you that Maxwell asked her to give Epstein a massage during this first meeting, is that correct?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did Maxwell state to her, in sum and substance, since you’re so strong, I’d appreciate it if you’d give Jeffrey a massage because he needs a massage every day or I get in trouble?” A. “Yes, she said that.” Q. “Is that what said to you, in sum and substance?” A. “Yes.” Q. “When that happened did remember Maxwell FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 1! 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 leading her to a room in the house?” A. “Yes.” Q. “When what happened?” A. “When went in the room — oh excuse m( went in the room Epstein was in robe. He took off his robe, and she started massaging him. And then he touched and pulled her hand to his penis.” Q. “What does did this?” A. “Don’t be frigid.” Q. “What was her reaction to this happening, from what she told you?” A. “She was taken back by it.” Q. “When this episode ended and left the remember Epstein saying when he room, did she tell that she remembered Maxwell being just outside the room when she left?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she remember Maxwell saying to her, did you have fun? Did he like it?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Does she remember Maxwell calling her several Jays afterwards, or at some short period of time afterwards?” A. “Yes, she did.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	62 03/29/2021
1	Q. remember Maxwell saying to her on the ”Did
2	phone call, in sum and substance, well, aren’t you a clever
3	girl, Jeffrey was very impressed?“
4	A. ”Yes.”
5	Q. ”Shortly after this incident does she remember
6	Maxwell asking her to come back over to the house?“
7	A. ”Yes.”
8	Q. ”And when she got there did she tell you she
9	remembered Maxwell saying to her, in substance, thank God
10	you’re here, if it’s not you or someone else it falls to
11	me?“
12	A. ”Yes.”
13	”Does she remember Maxwell bringing her up the Q.
14	stairs to the house on that occasion?“
15	A. ”Yes, she did.”
16	Q. ”What does she remember happening when Maxwell
17	opened the door to the room?“
18	A. ”Epstein was standing there nude.”
19	”Does she remember Maxwell then saying, I’ll leave Q.
20	you guys to it?“
21	A. ”Yes.”
22	Q. ”After these first two encounters, did Epstein and
23	Maxwell invite to travel with them to
24	Palm Beach, U.S. Virgin Islands, Paris, and New York, for
25	the next several years?”
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03/29/2021 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. “Yes, they did.” Q. “Does she remember whether these trips began before or after her 18th birthday?” A. “She couldn’t remember specifically.” Q. “Before these trips started, you were describing earlier when told you about the time she spent with Maxwell when they first met, when she was 17, is that right? A. “Yes.” Q. “During these conversations when she would spend time with Maxwell, did remember talking with her about her life, and her family, and her personal circumstances, with Maxwell?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Now you testified a moment ago that told you that at some point she began travelling with Maxwell and Epstein, and she wasn’t sure whether or not these trips started before she turned 18, is that right?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did describe to you that Epstein sexually abused her during these trips, typically in the context of a sexualized massage?” A. “Yes, he did.” Q. “Did Epstein give her money?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did she tell you that he would give her cash?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	03/29/2021 64
1	A. ”Yes.”
2	Q. ”Did she describe to you that the abuse included,
3	among other things, Epstein groping her and using a massager
4	device on her genitals?“
5	A. ”Yes.”
6	Q. ”And was the massager device like a vibrator?“
7	A. ”Yes, it was.”
8	Q. ”From what told you, was Maxwell in the
9	room during these encounters?“
10	A. ”Maxwell wasn’t in the room.”
11	Q. ”What did she tell you would typically happen when
12	left the room after these episodes; was Maxwell
13	typically nearby?“
14	A. She was usually right near the room." "Yes.
15	”Does she remember Maxwell asking her, after she’d Q.
16	leave the room from one of these sessions, how was it; is he
17	happy?“
18	A. ”Yes.”
19	Q. ”Did she also tell you that she remembers Maxwell
20	telling her at some point, in sum and substance, you know
21	how he is when he’s not happy, and you know what makes him
22	happy; he has to have sex all the time; he’s like a super
23	hero?“
24	A. ”Yes, she said that.”
25	Q. ”Did tell you about an incident that
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 65 occurred, after she turned 18, in Palm Beach when she was staying at the Palm Beach house?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did the incident she described to you involve a school-girl outfit?” A. “Yes, it did.” Q. “Could you please describe for the grand jury what told you about that incident?” A. said that Maxwell had shown her a bedroom and upon the bed was a school-girl outfit. Maxwell had told her — when confronted her about it — and Maxwell said, well, I thought it would be adorable if you gave Jeffrey his tea in this; so felt like she had to put it on. And so she put it on, took Epstein his tea, and Epstein then slapped her on the buttocks and reached under the skirt and touched her.” Q. “What was her demeanor like when she described this incident to you?” A. “She was crying. She was very upset.” Q. “When described seeing the school-girl outfit and talking to Maxwell about it, did she remember Maxwell telling her, don’t be so frigid?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Does she remember that later in the day, after she had delivered Epstein his tea and he assaulted her, does FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 66 she remember Maxwell telling her, I heard you did well?” A. “Yes.” Q. “During the years that was in contact with Maxwell and Epstein, did she remember whether Maxwell had ever asked her if she knew any other girls who could massage Epstein?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Does she remember Maxwell saying, in sum and substance, do you know anyone who could give him a blowjob today, I don’t feel like it?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Does she remember Maxwell saying, when she asked her to bring other girls, that they have to look young at least?” A. “Yes.” Q. “From your conversations with , did she tell you whether or not she ever brought any other girls?” A. “‘I’ll didn’t bring any girls.” Q. “Did she tell you why not?” A. “She didn’t want anyone else to go through that.” Q. “From your interviews with , did she tell you that there came a time, when she was in her early twenties, when she stopped travelling with Maxwell and Epstein?” A. “Yes.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GNLGUDNYJX000288¶

1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 67 Q. “Was she struggling with substance abuse at that point?” A. “Yes, she was.” Q. “Did she tell you that she got sober in her twenties?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “What is her current profession?” A. “She runs a non-profit for people who struggle with addiction and trauma.” Q. “Did provide you with several emails that she exchanged with Epstein in the early 2000s?” A. “Yes, she did.” Q. “And were those emails very friendly in tone?” A. “Yes, they were.” 4• “What did she say to you when you talked with her about those emails?” A. “She said she didn’t, at the time, want to acknowledge what was going on to her. That looking back — on — it’s different.” Q. “Did your squad at the FBI execute a search warrant at Jeffrey Epstein’s townhouse in Manhattan in July of 2019?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Did you personally participate in the search of Epstein’s residence?” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	03/29/2021 6P
1	A. ”Yes, I did.”
2	Q. ”Did the townhouse include a massage room?“
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”Have you yourself been in that massage room?“
5	A. ”Yes, I have.”
6	Q. ”Could you please describe for the grand jury what
7	that massage room looked like?“
8	”It was dark. It had dark draperies covering the A.
9	There was a massage table; there were oils, there windows.
10	was a handheld massager in there; along with handcuffs, a
11	whip, and along with walls were nude photographs of young
12	females.”
13	”I believe you testified a moment ago that Q.
14	told you that there was a time when Maxwell
15	asked her to wear a school-girl outfit for Epstein when they
16	were in Palm Beach. Did you find a school-girl outfit in
17	Epstein’s New York townhouse?“
18	A. ”Yes, we did.”
19	Q. ”Where did you find it?“
20	”It was found in a room next to the massage room.” A.
21	Q. ”And to be clear did the FBI find sex toys during
22	the search?“
23	A. ”Yes.”
24	Q. ”What was found?“
25	A. ”Butt plugs, dildo, and vibrators.”
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 69 Q. “We’ve talked about three minor girls today; , is that right?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Have you reviewed the proposed indictment marked Grand Jury Exhibit 1?” A. “Yes, I have.” Q. “Is the individual referred to as Victim 1 in the proposed indictment?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Is the individual referred to as Victim 2 in the proposed indictment?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Is the individual referred to as Victim 3 in the indictment?” A. “Yes.” Q. “During all of Maxwell’s interactions with the victims when they were underage girls, based on the timeframe and your knowledge of Maxwell’s birthdate, was she in her thirties?” A. “Yes, she was.” Q. “Just one moment. All right. Switching gears. Have you become aware that in or about 2016 Maxwell gave sworn testimony in a civil deposition in connection with a lawsuit?” A. “Yes.” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 70 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “Could you please explain for the grand jury, what is a deposition?” A. “It is a statement made under oath.” Q. “And in the course of civil litigation is it common for witnesses or parties of the lawsuit to give a deposition, under oath, where they testify about the substance of the case?” A. ” Yes. ” Q. “And is deposition testimony live, and in-person, and under oath?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Is a court reporter present when a deposition takes place?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Now before we talk about Maxwell’s deposition testimony, I want to talk to you about the lawsuit that the testimony was about. Have you become aware that in or about 2015 an individual named filed a lawsuit against Ghislaine Maxwell here in the Southern District of New York?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And was suing Maxwell for defamation?” A. “Yes, she was.” Q. “Was the lawsuit captioned against Ghislaine Maxwell, the docket number 15CB 7433, here FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. a Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	03/29/2021 71
1	in the Southern District of New York?“
2	A. ”Yes.”
3	Q. ”Generally speaking, in broader strokes, what was
4	the lawsuit about; what was the claim that was
5	bringing against Maxwell?“
6	I’m sorry. What line are we on again? WITNESS.
7	Page 68, line 4. MS.
8	WITNESS. had stated that she had been
9	sexually abused by Epstein and Maxwell as a minor. Maxwell
10	came forward publically and called her a liar, so
11	sued her for defamation.”
12	BY MS.
13	Q. ”So just a small legal instruction on this topic.
14	Ladies and gentlemen, I instruct you that the allegations in
15	the lawsuit are not being presented to you as evidence that
16	I instruct you that you should those incidents occurred.
17	not consider those allegations for their truth. Instead,
18	the circumstances of the lawsuit are being presented to you
19	so that you can consider the context of the case and the
20	circumstances under which Maxwell made statements under
21	Turning back to the deposition, did Maxwell’s oath.
22	deposition take place over two different days?“
23	A. ”Yes.”
24	Q. ”On both days does she give testimony in
25	Manhattan?”
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1	A. ”Yes, she did.”
2	”Is that where the deposition took place?” Q.
3	A. ”Yes.”
4	Q. ”And on both days was Maxwell sworn under oath?“
5	A. ”Yes.”
6	”If you could flip through the remaining slides of Q.
7	the presentation, do those slides contain true and accurate
8	excerpts of the transcript of that deposition?“
9	A. ”Yes.”
10	”Turning to the next slide, is this the cover page Q.
11	of the transcript of the first deposition that took place on
12	April 22, 2016?“
13	A. ”Yes.”
14	”And does it have the case caption on it?” Q.
15	A. ”Yes, it does.”
16	”Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt Q.
17	from the transcript?“
18	A. ”Yes.”
19	”I imagine the grand jurors can’t read it from Q.
20	their seats so if you could read it with me, I’ll read the
21	questions, and if you could read the answers.”
22	“‘Did Jeffrey Epstein have a scheme to recruit
23	underage girls for underage massages?‘“
24	MS. And it appears there was an objection
25	from the lawyer.
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MS. Q. “‘If you know.’” A. “‘I don’t know what you are talking about.’” Q. “Just to be clear, was the question and answer is the answer here Maxwell’s testimony?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Just to be clear you testified earlier that participated in sexualized massages with Epstein and Maxwell, is that right?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And was a minor when that occurred?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And did you also testify earlier that Maxwell — that told you that Maxwell asked her to give Epstein massages when she was a minor?” A. “Yes.” Q. “If you could turn to the next slide please. Is this another excerpt from that same deposition?” A. “Yes, it is.” Q. “All right. I’ll read the question and you can read the answer.” “‘Was all the people, under the age of 18 that you’ve interacted at with, at any of Jeffrey Epstein’s properties?’” A. “‘I’m not aware of anybody that I interacted with, FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 other than, obviously, who was 17 at this point.’” Q. “Just to be clear, you testified earlier about two girls under the age of 18 who interacted with Maxwell at Epstein’s properties, is that correct?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And those individuals were and who told you that, correct?” A. “Yes, that’s correct.” Q. “Turning to the next slide. Is this the cover page of the transcript from the deposition that took place on July 22, 2016?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And again, was this Maxwell giving testimony as part of the testimony under oath here in Manhattan?” A. “Yes.” Q. “If you could please turn to the next slide. Is that an excerpt — are these two excerpts from that deposition?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Again, I’ll read the questions, if you could please read the answers.” “‘Were you aware of the presence of sex toys or devices used in sexual activities in Mr. Epstein’s Palm Beach house?’” MS. There is an objection from the FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000296¶

	75 03/29/2021
1	lawyer.
2	Not that I recall.’” WITNESS. ”’No, no.
3	BY MS.
4	“‘Do you know whether Mr. Epstein possessed sex Q.
5	toys or devices used in sexual activities?‘“
6	MS. There’s an objection from the lawyer.
7	“‘No.” WITNESS.
8	BY MS.
9	Q. ”Just to be clear you testified earlier that
10	told you he found sex toys and a massager in
11	Palm Beach and also that he had seen Maxwell had a basket of
12	sex toys in her closet there, is that correct?“
13	A. ”Yes, that’s correct.”
14	Q. ”And is it correct you testified earlier that
15	Epstein used a vibrator on , is that correct?“
16	A. ”Yes, that’s correct.”
17	Q. ”And did you also testify earlier that
18	told you he did that as well?“
19	A. ”Yes, that’s correct.”
20	Q. ”And did you also testify earlier that sex toys
21	were found by the police in the Palm Beach house in 2005, is
22	that right?“
23	A. ”Yes.”
24	Q. ”And did you also testify earlier that the FBI
25	found sex toys in Epstein’s New York City townhouse in
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	76 03/29/2021
1	2019?“
2	A. ”Yes, that’s correct.”
3	”If you could please turn to the next slide. This Q.
4	is on Page 27. It says, are these also excerpts from that
5	same deposition?“
6	”Yes.” A.
7	Q. ”Again, I’ll read the questions if you could
8	please read the answers.”
9	4. ”’Other than yourself, and the blonde and brunette
10	that you have identified as having been involved in
11	three-way sexual activities, with whom did Mr. Epstein have
12	sexual activities?‘“
13	MS. There’s an objection from the lawyer.
14	WITNESS. ”’I wasn’t aware that he was having
15	sexual activities with anyone when I was with him, other
16	than myself.‘“
17	BY MS.
18	Q. ”’I want to be sure that I’m clear. Is it your
19	testimony that in the 1990s and 2000s you were not aware
20	that Mr. Epstein was having sexual activities with anyone
21	other than yourself and the blonde and brunette on those few
22	occasions when they were involved with you?‘“
23	That is correct.’” A. ”’That is my testimony.
24	Q. ”Have you reviewed the deposition transcript?“
25	A. ”Yes.”
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. “In full? Now the excerpt we just read has the reference to a blonde and a brunette. Are those individuals completely different from the individuals we’ve been talking about today?” A. “Yes.” 4• “Just to be clear, is it correct that you testified earlier that and told you that Epstein sexually abused them repeatedly, is that correct?” A. “Yes.” Q. “And did you also testify earlier that Maxwell was occasionally present when Epstein was abusing , based on what she told you?” A. “Yes, that’s correct.” Q. “Turning to the next slide. Is this also an excerpt from the same deposition?” A. “I’m sorry?” Q. “I’m so sorry. Turning to the next slide, on Page 28. Is this also an excerpt from the same deposition?” A. “Yes.” Q. “Thank you. Okay. Again, if we could read that together. I’ll take the question and you can take the answer.” Q. “‘Let’s just tie that down. Is it your testimony that you’ve never given anybody a massage?’” A. “‘I’ve not given anyone a massage.’” FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	78 03/29/2021
1	“‘You never gave Mr. Epstein a massage? Is that Q.
2	your testimony?‘“
3	A. ”’That is my testimony.‘“
4	Q. ”’You never gave a massage? Is that
5	your testimony?‘“
6	A. ”’I never gave a massage.‘“
7	”Just to be clear, as you testified earlier, is it Q.
8	told you that Maxwell gave her a correct that
9	massage when they were in New Mexico?“
10	A. ”Yes.”
11	MS. We’re going to stop the read back
12	Ladies and gentlemen, let’s take a five minute break there.
13	and we’ll come back to finish the presentation in about five
14	With the Foreperson’s permission, I will ask that minutes.
15	the witness please be excused.
16	FOREPERSON. Yes, he may.
17	MS. Thank you.
18	(Witness Temporarily Excused)
19	(Time noted: 11:21 a.m.)
20	(Recess taken)
21
22
23
24
25
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03/29/2021 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Colloquy Precedes) (Witness Resumes) (Time Noted: 11:34 a.m.) BY MS. Q. Welcome back, Detective. A. Thank you. Q. I have placed in front of you what has been marked as Grand Jury Exhibit 5. Do you recognize that? A. I do. Q. Is this a PowerPoint presentation concerning some of the facts and evidence that you have gathered in your investigation? A. Yes. Q. Did you participate in preparing this Exhibit in connection with your testimony today? A. Yes. Q. Will it assist you in testifying today? A. Yes. Q. Then we’re going to have it up on the screen and we’ll use it as you testify. During the course of this investigation have you participated in multiple interviews with an individual named ? A. Yes. Q. Did those interviews take place in the year 2020 and the year 2021? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 80 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Were there approximately five of those interviews in total? A. Yes. Q. For today’s purposes I’m going to refer to her as Have you also reviewed reports from other law enforcement interviews for A. Yes. Q. And is your testimony today based on both the review of those reports and your personal participation in interviews with A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next slide. Are these photographs A. Yes. Q. Did tell you approximately how old she was in one of these photographs? A. Yes. Q. Which photograph did she identify? A. The one on the right. Q. Where is the one on the right from, according to A. Oh, I’m sorry. That was from her MySpace page. Q. And about how old did photograph from her MySpace page? recall being in this FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	03/29/2021 81
	A. Sixteen years old.
	Q. What is date of birth?
3	A.
4	living when she was about 14 Q. Where was
5	/ears old?
6	A. West Palm Beach, Florida.
7	What was home life like when she was 14 Q.
8	years old?
9	She grew up she had been A. It was troubled.
10	molested multiple times as a child. Her mother was addicted
11	to drugs and alcohol. Her parents were separated, she often
12	fought with her brother and her mother.
13	Q. was 14 years old, did she have a When
14	boyfriend?
15	A. Yes.
16	What was his name? Q.
17	A.
18	when they were dating How old was Q•
19	was 14 years old? when
20	A. Approximately 17.
21	So was Q. about three years older than
22	A. Yes.
23	Q. Did there come a time when learned of and
24	met Jeffrey Epstein?
25	A. Yes.
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		03/29/2021 82
1	Q.	According to how did that happen?
2	A.	Her boyfriend was friends with someone named
3		(ph) who was dating
4		The four of them would often hang out together.
5		On one particular occasion was asked by them and
6		if she would like to make some money by massaging
7	an older man.
8	Q.	How did respond?
9	A.	She agreed to do it.
10	Q.	About what year does remember this
11		conversation taking place?
12	A.	2001.
13	Q.	So how old was at that time?
14	A.	Fourteen.
15	Q.	During your investigation have you learned of
16		date of birth?
17	A.	Yes.
18	Q•	at the time of the How old was
19		in 2001, about massaging an old conversation with
20	guy?
21	A.	Seventeen.
22	Q.	After that conversation with did
23	meet Epstein?
24	A.	Yes.
25	Q.	What did remember happening the first time
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1	she met Epstein?
2	A. She was brought there by She recalls
3	going in through the side door and being introduced to
4	Maxwell as they entered.
5	Q. Based on her interactions with Maxwell, as she and
6	understanding of entered, what was
7	whether and Maxwell had met before?
8	A. She understood that they had met before.
9	Q. And did Maxwell, in substance, tell to
10	show what to do?
11	A. Yes.
12	Q. What happened next?
13	They went upstairs to the massage room. They set A.
14	massage room, waited for Epstein to enter. At that up the
15	point they participated in giving him a massage.
16	Q. describe the massage room in the How did
17	Florida house?
18	She described it as having a few doors inside of A.
19	it, some of them entering a closet. She described there
20	being a it’s like a bathroom, basically, that had a sink
21	inside of it. And inside of the closet had a massage table
22	which they had to take out in order to set it up.
23	Q. What, if any, photographs did recall
24	seeing in and around the massage room?
25	A. She recalls nude photographs of Maxwell.
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03/29/2021 84 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. And of other females? A. Yes. Q. After and had set up the massage table, what happened next? A. Jeffrey Epstein came into the room; they massaged him. At some point during the massage he turned over and got on top. They had sex, and couch and tried not to watch. Q. According to did Jeffrey Epstein massage? A. Yes. Q. A. and they Q. So to clarify, did receive $300? A. Yes. Q. sat on the and engage in sexual intercourse during that At the end of the massage what happened? Jeffrey left, they got dressed, and each got paid, walked downstairs. They got paid $300 each. and each And how did they receive that money; in what denomination? A. Crisp one hundred dollar bills. Q. After that first visit did go to Epstein’s Palm Beach residence on multiple occasions to provide sexualized massages to Jeffrey Epstein between 2001 and 2004? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000306¶

	85 03/29/2021
	A. Yes.
	Q. Approximately how many times does estimate
3	she massaged Jeffrey Epstein?
4	A. About one hundred times.
5	memories of the events at Epstein’s Do Q.
6	residence run together after that first visit with
7	A. Yes.
8	Q. At some point after her first or second visit to
9	Epstein’s residence, did give her phone number to
10	someone at Epstein’s house?
11	A. Yes.
12	Q. After that did go to Epstein’s house by
13	herself without accompanying her?
14	A. Yes.
15	Q. After provided her phone number, how did
16	she schedule times to massage Epstein at his house?
17	A. She would either call herself or she would receive
18	a phone call.
19	Q. explain why she would call herself to Did
20	ask to schedule a time to massage Epstein?
21	At the time she wanted to make more money so A. Yes.
22	she could buy drugs.
23	Q. During her time seeing Epstein did become
24	addicted to certain drugs?
25	A. Yes.
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1	Q. What drugs was she primarily using?
2	A. Cocaine and marijuana.
3	Q. When someone would call to schedule her
4	for massages with Epstein, who does remember making
5	those calls?
6	A. Maxwell or
7	Q. And were there particular time periods, over the
8	course of the years when was interacting with
9	Epstein, that one or the other of those two individuals
10	would call?
11	A. Yes.
12	Q. What did say about that?
13	A. She recalled that for the first several months of
14	going to Epstein she would get calls primarily from Maxwell.
15	After that, she would receive calls primarily from
16	but at the same time, occasionally receiving calls from
17	Maxwell.
18	Q. And did she also remember receiving calls from
19	did not know? other Epstein employees whose names
20	A. Yes.
21	Q. refer to Maxwell as Maxwell? Did
22	A. Yes.
23	And then you mentioned another person; what was 4•
24	the other person’s name?
25	A.
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1	did Q. And did she primarily refer to
2	as primarily refer to
3	A. Yes.
4	Q. Who was , according to
5	A. She was another employee of Epstein’s. She was an
6	assistant who made phone calls, arranged massage
7	appointments, and took photographs.
8	Q. When Maxwell would call to schedule
9	massage appointments with Epstein, did Maxwell ever tell
10	where Maxwell was calling from?
11	A. Yes.
12	Q. What did remember about that?
13	She recalls her saying that they were in New York, A.
14	and that they would be travelling to Florida at a certain
15	time period and asking if she would be available for that
16	time when they return.
17	say “they” would be in New York, who Q. And when you
18	to? was referring
19	A. Epstein and Maxwell.
20	So did Q. understand from these conversations
21	that Maxwell and Epstein, at the time of those phone calls,
22	were in New York?
23	A. Yes.
24	Q. What phone numbers would Epstein’s employees call
25	to schedule appointments for to massage Epstein?
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 89 appointment, what happened when she first arrived? A. She would arrive through the side door and generally be greeted by someone. Q. Would that be in the kitchen? A. Yes. Q. Does she recall, at times, Maxwell being the person who would greet her in the kitchen? A. Yes. Q. After being greeted in the kitchen, what would do next? A. She would go upstairs and arrange the massage room and the massage table. Q. Once was in the massage room, what happened during each appointment? A. Epstein would generally come out, he would get on the table. She would begin her massage. During the massage he would flip over and she would generally play with nipples. He would masturbate, he would touch her breasts and buttocks, and she said that every instance ended with Epstein ejaculating. Q. What would be wearing during these appointments? A. At first she just started wearing her underwear but was told that she would make more money to be completely nude, so she started getting totally nude. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was she — did it become during the massages? A. Yes. Q. 03/29/2021 90 Q. And so after her first few visits to Epstein’s, practice to be fully nude On a few occasions during these massages did Epstein touch vagina? A. Yes. Q. On one occasion does touching her vagina with a vibrator? A. Yes. Q. And you mentioned that recall Epstein recalled each massage ended with Epstein ejaculating; so is it recollection that every single massage she performed for Epstein involved a sex act? A. Yes. Q. After each massage, what happened? A. Epstein would get up, would get dressed; she would get paid. The money would generally be on the table or on the sink, or she would go downstairs and be paid by Maxwell. Q. How much did recall being paid for each massage? A. Three hundred dollars. Q. In what denomination? A. One hundred dollar bills. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GALGLSDNY2M000312¶

	03/29/2021 91
1	You mentioned that would sometimes be Q.
2	greeted by Maxwell when she arrived at Epstein’s house.
3	Earlier on in her visits to Epstein’s, would Maxwell engage
4	in conversation?
5	A. Yes.
6	Q. And then later on, after started primarily
7	being the person to schedule these appointments, would
8	Maxwell still be present sometimes?
9	A. Yes.
10	Q. But during those later periods would Maxwell
11	primarily just say hello and not really have extended
12	conversations with
13	A. Yes.
14	Q. During the earlier period when was going
15	over to Epstein’s Palm Beach house, what types of
16	conversations does she recall having with Maxwell?
17	A. She talked with Maxwell about her home life. She
18	talked with Maxwell about her abuse that occurred when she
19	was younger. She recalled Maxwell asking about her sexual
20	experiences that she’s had. She recalled Maxwell asking her
21	if she used a vibrator or a toy ever on herself.
22	Q. Did she also recall conversations about travel?
23	A. Yes.
24	I’d like to go through each of those topics that Q.
25	recalled discussing. First, what did tell
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 92 Maxwell about home life in response to Maxwell’s questions? A. She told her that she — her mother was addicted to drugs and that she had been molested several times as a child. Q. Did she also tell Maxwell that the parents were separated? A. Yes. Q. You also mentioned sexual topics coming up. What does recall about the time or times when sexual topics came up with Maxwell? A. Maxwell has asked her if she was sexually active. had told her that she’s currently sexually active with her boyfriend. Maxwell asked her if she’d ever used a toy to pleasure herself, and she had said no. Q. Did recall that, the same day that Maxwell asked about whether she ever used a toy, was the day that Epstein placed a vibrator on genitals during the massage? A. Yes. Q. What did recall about conversations with Maxwell about travel? A. She recalls that on multiple occasions Maxwell asked her if she wanted to travel, specifically, overseas. She had told her that she was 14 years old and that her FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. 6 Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1	mother wouldn’t let her. Maxwell offered to get her a
2	passport so she would be able to travel.
3	Q. When you said “she had told her that she was
4	told Maxwell that 14 years old,” did you mean that
5	was 14 years old?
6	A. Yes.
7	Q. Does recall that these conversations took
8	place when she was about 14 years old?
9	A. Yes.
10	Q. recall Maxwell saying specifically Does
11	where Maxwell wanted to travel with Epstein?
12	A. No.
13	Q. Did Epstein ever invite to travel with
14	him?
15	A. Yes.
16	Q. What did remember about that?
17	A. They were similar conversations where she had
18	told he had asked her if she would like to travel and
19	had also travelled with him. She said that
20	had told him that she was 14 and, likely, her mother
21	He had also offered to get her wouldn’t let her travel.
22	passport.
23	Q. Did ever actually travel with Maxwell or
24	Epstein?
25	A. No.
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1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 94 Q. After told Maxwell and Epstein that she was 14 years old, did Maxwell still call her to schedule massage appointments for Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Did still see Maxwell at the Palm Beach residence after telling Maxwell that she was 14 years old? A. Yes. Q. Did Maxwell ever see naked? A. Yes. Q. In particular does recall that there were between one and three times when Maxwell saw her naked? A. Yes. Q. How did that happen, according to A. It happened in the massage room. Q. And was there one time, in particular, when recalls Maxwell touching her while was naked? A. Yes. Q. What did remember about that? A. She recalls being in the massage room undressing; Maxwell complimented her body and then asked if her breasts were real, at which point, she touched her breasts. Q. And when you say “she touched her breasts,” do you mean Maxwell touched A. Yes. breasts? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GJ_SDNY_00000316¶

	03/29/2021 0,5
1	And on those occasions, just to be clear, Q.
2	according to why was she getting undressed in the
3	massage room when Maxwell was present?
4	A. For getting prepared for the massage with
5	Jeffrey Epstein.
6	Other than during her first visit or two with Q.
7	ever participate in massages with did
8	Epstein during which another female was in the room?
9	A. Yes.
10	In particular does she recall two occasions when 4•
11	Epstein brought another girl into the room?
12	A. Yes.
13	Q. Would you please describe for the grand jury what
14	recalled about one such occasion?
15	A. She recalled that the girl looked like a model.
16	She recalls at one point during the massage Jeffrey Epstein
17	attempted to have sex with her; he slightly penetrated her
18	at least once or twice, that she can recall; she told him
19	no, at which point he began to have sex with the other
20	female and at the same time she was performing oral on
21
22	Q. Now just to clarify some of the pronouns there.
23	You said that Epstein attempted to penetrate, or have sexual
24	intercourse, with her; do you mean that recalls that
25	Epstein attempted to penetrate vagina with his
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	q6 03/29/2021
1	penis?
2	A. Yes.
3	Q. recall Epstein attempting to do that Does
4	and actually inserting his penis into her vagina on one or
5	two occasions?
6	A. Yes.
7	Q. And in response, did say no?
8	A. Yes.
9	Q. And in response to that did Epstein then engage in
10	sexual intercourse with the other girl?
11	A. Yes.
12	And at the same time was the other girl performing 4•
13	oral sex on
14	A. Yes.
15	Was there another instance where Epstein brought a Q.
16	different girl into the room?
17	A. Yes.
18	Q. remember happening during that What did
19	other instance?
20	A. Similar instance where Epstein would have sex with
21	the other female at the same time while she was performing
22	oral on
23	Q. So Epstein would have intercourse with the other
24	girl and the other girl would perform oral sex on
25	A. Yes.
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 97 Q. Did ever bring other girls to massage Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Why did she do that? A. She was told she could earn more money. Q. Who told her, or asked her, to bring other girls? A. Both Jeffrey and Maxwell. Q. What, in particular, did they ask her to do? A. They asked if she could bring younger girls. Q. Did in fact, bring multiple girls over to Epstein’s house? A. Yes. Q. Can she remember the name of every girl that she brought over? A. No. 4• Are there some examples of names that she remembers of girls that brought over? A. Yes. 4• What are some examples? A. (ph) and Q. According to A. Yes. Q. older than And according to • was younger than was about a year FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000319¶

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1	A. Yes.
2	brought these girls would Epstein Q. When
3	and the engage in sex acts, in the presence of both
4	girls she had brought, during the massage?
5	A. Yes.
6	Q. and the girl After each massage would both
7	get paid?
8	A. Yes.
9	Q. How much did remember them getting paid?
10	A. Three hundred dollars.
11	Q. So did each, and the girl, get $300?
12	A. Yes.
13	Q. Did receive any gifts from Epstein?
14	A. Yes.
15	Q. What’s an example of some gifts that she remembers
16	receiving from Epstein?
17	A. Flowers, a book called “Massage for Dummies,” and
18	Victoria’s Secret underwear.
19	Q. Does she recall receiving multiple packages of
20	Victoria’s Secret lingerie?
21	A. Yes.
22	Q. Before she first received Victoria’s Secret
23	lingerie, did Maxwell ask her for her address and her bra
24	size?
25	A. Yes.
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03/29/2021 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. How does remember receiving packages Victoria’s Secret underwear? A. She recalls receiving them at her house in West Palm Beach. Q. And how would they get to her house? A. Either FedEx or UPS. Q. What, if anything, does remember about the return address on those packages? A. She recalls that they stated they were from New York. Q. Does she remember whose name was on the return address? A. She recalls Jeffrey’s and Maxwell’s name. Q. What did do with the money she made massaging Epstein? A. She used it to purchase drugs. Q. Did she and her boyfriend then use those drugs? A. Yes. Q. Did continue going to school after she met Jeffrey Epstein? A. No. Q. About how old was she when she dropped out? A. About 14. Q. Was she in middle school when she dropped out? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, I reviewed it. Q. Is the individual referred to as Minor Victim 4 in the proposed superseding indictment? A. Yes. Q. Before you began investigating Epstein and his associates was there a prior investigation by a different FBI office in Florida into Jeffrey Epstein? A. Yes. Q. During that investigation was interviewer in 2007? A. Yes. Q. Have you reviewed a report from that interview? A. Yes. Q. During that interview did describe providing numerous paid sexualized massages to Epstein at his Palm Beach residence when she was underage? A. Yes. Q. Did mention Maxwell at all during that interview? A. No. Q. During your more recent interviews with her in 2021 did explain why she did not mention Maxwell during her 2007 interview? A. Yes. Q. What did she say about that? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. She was not asked. Q. She was not asked about Maxwell? A. Correct. Q. Did she think that Maxwell was important to the interview in 2007? A. No. Q. Did sue Jeffrey Epstein in approximately 2008? A. Yes. Q. 2009? Was she deposed, as part of that law suit, in A. Yes. Q. Have you reviewed a transcript of that deposition? A. Yes. Q. During that deposition in 2009 did state that Maxwell was one of the people who would call her to schedule massage appointments with Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Was asked any other questions about Maxwell, or any follow-up questions about Maxwell, during that 2009 deposition? A. No. Q. After that deposition did the law suit settle? A. Yes. Q. During her more recent interviews did FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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03/29/2021 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 admit that she lied during her 2009 deposition? A. Yes. Q. And in particular, in her 2021 interviews did tell you that after she stopped seeing Epstein she began working for an escort service? A. Yes. Q. During her 2021 interviews did admit that, as part of that escort service, she engaged in paid sex acts with men? A. Yes. Q. Now, during her 2009 deposition was asked about her time working for an escort service? A. Yes. Q. Did she lie and claim that she had engaged in no sex acts and only non-sexual dates as part of that escort service? A. Yes. Q. Did she explain why she lied during her deposition? A. Yes. Q. What did she say about that? A. She was embarrassed. Q. Was she ashamed to admit that she had worked as a prostitute, during her deposition? A. Yes. FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 03/29/2021 104 Q. Has struggled with drug addiction in the years since her time with Epstein? A. Yes. Q. Did she, in particular, become addicted to cocaine and crack cocaine? A. Yes. Q. Was she also in a car crash after which she was prescribed opioids? A. Yes. Q. And did she become addicted to opioids? A. Yes. Q. Between the ages of 18 and 26 was arrested and convicted, on multiple times including misdemeanors and felonies, for crimes arising out of her drug use, such as drug possession and traffic violations? A. Yes. Q. Was her last felony an incident involving stolen property when she pawned an Xbox that belonged to one of ‘s friends? A. Yes. Q. As a result of that conviction did spend several weeks in jail? A. Yes. Q. And was that the longest jail sentence she had ever served? FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	03/29/2021
1	A. Yes.
2	After Q. was released from that jail sentence
3	did she go into drug treatment and obtain mental health
4	treatment?
5	A. Yes.
6	Q. Was that several years ago?
7	A. Yes.
8	Q. What does do now?
9	A. She’s a stay-at-home mother.
10	Is she married? Q.
11	A. Yes.
12	Q. To someone other than
13	A. Yes.
14	Q. Does she have three young children with her
15	current husband?
16	A. Yes.
17	Does he work while she takes care of the kids? Q.
18	A. Yes.
19	Q. Has received treatment for depression,
20	anxiety, PTSD, and schizophrenia, among other mental health
21	issues?
22	A. Yes.
23	Q. As for her schizophrenia, does that manifest in
24	hearing voices telling her that someone’s going to
25	take her children away and hurt her children?
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes. Q. Does believe that that comes from a fear that what happened to her as a child could happen to her children? A. Yes. Q. Is able to tell the difference between those voices and reality? A. Yes. Q. Does she take medication to help her not hear those voices? A. Yes. Q. Does currently take multiple medications to help her manage her drug addiction and her mental health issues? A. Yes. Q. Do those include Methadone, Xanax, and medical marijuana? A. Yes. Q. Is currently, or has she ever, sued Maxwell? A. No. Q. Does she have any plans to do so? A. No. Q. Have you identified evidence that corroborates account of her time interacting with Epstein and FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000328¶

03/29/2021 107 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Maxwell? A. Yes. Q. Did you interview A. Yes. Q. What is the current nature of ex-boyfriend, and relationship? A. They have a child in common, and they talk very minimally just because they have a child in common. Q. So do they only speak when necessary to discuss their teenage son? A. Yes. Q. According to were he and dating when was about 14 years old and was about 17 years old? A. Yes. Q. Did remember that he, and and would hang out around that time? A. Yes. Q. What di’ recall about how came to meet Jeffrey Epstein? A. He recalls that the four of them were hanging out, and they had mentioned — Lo them that and had mentioned could go to massage an old man and she FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000329¶

	03/29/2021 108
1	would be paid money in return for that.
	Q. After that what does remember happening?
3	A. He recalls that went to Epstein’s house,
4	to do the massage. with
5	Q. Did recall bringing to Epstein’s
6	Palm Beach residence on multiple occasions?
7	A. Yes.
8	Q. remember receiving phone calls to Did
9	to massage Epstein? schedule appointments for
10	A. Yes.
11	Q. What, if anything, did remember about
12	meeting Jeffrey Epstein?
13	He recalls meeting him at his house A. Epstein’s
14	house; he recalls that Epstein was there with his car, and
15	he was showing off his car; he recalls that Epstein was
16	flashy.
17	What, if anything, did Q. remember
18	saying about Maxwell?
19	A. He recalls that said Maxwell was rude and
20	nasty and that she was supposed to be teaching her how to do
21	massages.
22	Q. remember doing with the money that What did
23	received from Epstein?
24	A. They purchased drugs; and
25	and would purchase drugs? Q.
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	109 03/29/2021
1	A. Yes.
2	Q. What did understand was happening when
3	was at Epstein’s Palm Beach residence?
4	A. He understood that she was going in there to give
5	massages to Epstein but felt that there may have also been
6	something else going on.
7	Q. bringing What did remember about
8	other girls to Epstein’s residence?
9	A. He recalls that she had brought other girls.
10	Q. Did he remember that both and the other
11	girls would get paid for going to Epstein’s house?
12	A. Yes.
13	Q. Turning to the next slide. During the prior
14	investigation into Epstein did the other FBI office obtain
15	certain Federal Express records regarding Epstein?
16	A. Yes.
17	Q. Was there one in particular from October of 2002
18	that is up on the slide right now?
19	A. Yes.
20	Q. Would you please walk the grand jury through what
21	we see on this slide?
22	On the left-hand side it says, picked up A. Sure.
23	October 7th of 2002. The sender’s address is on the bottom.
24	In the middle it says, Jeffrey E. Epstein; his address is
25	457 Madison Avenue, New York, New York. It was sent
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	111 03/29/2021
1	while she got her massage. When she was done she got in the
2	At some point car and they started leaving the property.
3	during that drive, while still on the property, she was
4	asked him to stop. She got out of the car and approached a
5	female who was wearing a uniform at the time. Maxwell spoke
6	to that female for about 20 minutes, and Mr. could
7	Maxwell then got back in the car not hear the conversation.
8	and drove back to Epstein’s house. Shortly thereafter,
9	later that day, that same girl arrived at the house. She
10	soon became a regular at the house, and learned
11	later learned her name to be
12	Q. And when said that became
13	understanding of a regular at the house, what was
14	why was coming to Epstein’s Palm Beach
15	residence?
16	A. To give Epstein massages.
17	Q. Turning to the next slide. Have you reviewed
18	flight records for Jeffrey Epstein’s private jet?
19	A. Yes.
20	Q. Do those show multiple flights that
21	was on when she was under the age of 18?
22	A. Yes.
23	Was Maxwell present for some of those flights with Q.
24
25	A. Yes.
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	112 03/29/2021
1	Q. Are two such flights reflected on this slide?
2	A. Yes.
3	Q. I’d like to ask you to please walk the grand jury
4	through those two flight records.
5	A. On December 11th and December 14th of 2000, you
6	can see all the way at the bottom of the page, on the
7	left-hand side it’s marked 11 and 14; the first flight goes
8	from PBI to Teterboro, which is Palm Beach in Florida and
9	Teterboro is in New Jersey. On that flight was Epstein,
10	Maxwell, and among others. The next
11	flight, on the 14th, goes from Teterboro to the
12	On that flight is Epstein, Maxwell, Virgin Islands.
13	among others.
14	Based on your understanding of Q.
15	date of birth, how old was on these two flights?
16	A. Seventeen.
17	Q. Turning to the next slide. Does this slide show
18	three additional flights that took with
19	Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell when she was 17 years
20	old?
21	A. Yes.
22	Would you please walk the grand jury through these Q.
23	three flights?
24	The first flight is January 26, 2001. A. Sure. On
25	that flight is Jeffrey Epstein, Maxwell, and
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03/29/2021 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 among others. That was from Teterboro to Palm Beach. Down a little bit further there’s another date that appears to be January 28th of 2001, although the 8 seems like it’s a little faded, but does appear to be late January 2001. On that flight is Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and among others. And the last flight is the 30th of January, also 2001; this flight’s had Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and on that flight. Q. Based on your review of flight records for Jeffrey Epstein’s private jet have you found multiple additional flights in 2001 that took with Epstein and Maxwell when she was still 17 years old? A. Yes. Q. Have you reviewed certain phone records from the year 2004? A. Yes. Q. Did those phone records show that on at least two occasions in April and May of 2004 an employee of Epstein’. called phone number? A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next slide. During the prior investigation of Epstein was there a search executed at Epstein’s Palm Beach residence in 2005 by the Palm Beach FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947 GM_GLSDNY_00000335¶

	03/29/2021
1	Police Department?
2	A. Yes.
3	During that search did the police recover message Q•
4	pads from the residence?
5	A. Yes.
6	Q. Would you please explain to the grand jury what
7	message pads are?
8	A. So message pads, in this particular Sure.
9	instance, were pads that Epstein kept next to each of his
10	phones in his residence. If someone was to call, whoever
11	would answer that phone would jot down a note as to who the
12	person was that was calling, who they were asking for, the
13	time and date, and their phone numbers, and any specific
14	message they wanted to leave.
15	Q. Have you reviewed the message pads that were
16	recovered from Jeffrey Epstein’s Palm Beach residence in
17	2005?
18	A. Yes.
19	Do those message pads include several messages Q.
20	with name and/or phone number on them?
21	A. Yes.
22	Do those message-pad excerpts date between the Q.
23	years 2003 and 2005?
24	A. Yes.
25	Q. Up on this slide right now, are those two examples
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03/29/2021 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of message-pad excerpts that reference A. Yes. Q. Would you please walk the grand jury through these message pad excerpts? A. Sure. The first one says the message is for Mr. Epstein. The date is 3/1/2003. 3/11? Q. I’m sorry, I think you said 3/1, did you mean A. I’m sorry. It’s a little faded. 3/11/2003. The message is from and the phone number — also a little faded here — but says, . The second message says it’s for JE, Jeffrey Epstein; the date is March 16, 2003; the message is from ; same number as the previous message is . The message on the bottom says she wants to work. Q. And just to remind the grand jury, did tell you that there were times when she would call to ask to massage Epstein so that she could get more money for drugs? A. Yes. Q. Turning to the next slide. Are these additional message pad excerpts seized from Jeffrey Epstein’s Palm Beach residence in 2005? A. Yes. Q. these? Would you please walk the grand jury through FREE STATE REPORTING, INC. Court Reporting Transcription D.C. Area 301-261-1902 Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947¶

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	116 03/29/2021
1	A. Sure. The first one on the left says the message
2	is for JE, Jeffrey Epstein. It’s from
3	There’s the date is missing on this one, but it says the
4	. The one time is 12:30. The phone number is
5	on the right says the message is also, again, JE for
6	There’s no date; the time is 3:15 p.m. Jeffrey Epstein.
7	, phone number It’s from The
8	wants to work. message states, ■
9	During the search in 2005 of Epstein’s Palm Beach Q.
10	residence were additional messages recovered that are nor
11	included on these slides?
12	A. Yes.
13	Q. Additionally, were multiple massage tables seize°
14	from the residence in 2005?
15	A. Yes.
16	Was at least one of those tables manufactured Q•
17	outside of the state of Florida?
18	A. Yes.
19	Q. Have you reviewed photographs and a video
20	recording from that 2005 search of the Palm Beach residence?
21	A. Yes.
22	Q. Would you please describe for the grand jury,
23	based on those photographs and that video, what the massage
24	room in the Palm Beach residence looked like?
25	A. It was basically a master bathroom. There Sure.
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	03/29/2021 117
1	was glass doors which appear to go back into a shower.
2	There’s a sink in the room; there is a couch in the room;
3	there’s several door in the room, one of which leads into a
4	closet. Inside of the closet on the walls, also on the
5	walls of the massage room, there were multiple photographs,
6	some of them being of nude women.
7	Q. Was there also a massage table in that closet?
8	A. Yes. Photographed was a massage table inside of
9	the closet.
10	Q. Have you told the grand jury everything you know
11	about this case, or have you merely answered the questions
12	that I’ve asked you?
13	A. I’ve merely answered the questions.
14	Q. When you testified about conversations you had
15	with others, or documents you reviewed, did you testify to
16	the exact words or just the substance?
17	A. Just the substance.
18	Q. And are you willing to return to the grand jury if
19	the grand jurors have additional questions for you?
20	A. Of course.
21	Then with the Foreperson’s permission MS.
22	I’ll ask that the witness please be excused.
23	FOREPERSON. Yes, he may.
24	MS. Thank you.
25	(Witness Excused)
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			03/29/2021
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	CERTIFICATE
3	I hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and
4	accurate transcription, to the best of my skill and ability,
5	from my electronic notes of this proceeding.
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8	Reporter
9	Free State Reporting, Inc
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