Interview notes on a witness's trips with Epstein and Maxwell, May 2020

09 May 2020¶

Interview of¶

• Recall meeting JE in winter worked for GM starting approx. prev. year, nothing stands out re: who first knew of JE or GM

• Re: Maxwell, knew of her existence but DMR when learned about her knowledge before meeting through ? That JE·GM were a couple, romantically had admired her generally. But not specific beliefs or collections, about either of them.

• Travel to NY, winter of

• how came about? believes JE purchased a ticket for NYC.

• Lad said JE might help with college

• Logistics of travel? DNK specifically recall. Believe, but not sure, ticket mailed, but also could have picked up at airport, e.g. — not sure.

• Doesn’t know who purchased the ticket or who transmitted it (if anyone)

• No knowledge of GM having any role in logistics — travel, purchase, etc.

• Didn’t spoken up Epstein before arrival in NYC

• Believe knew re: the trip, but not spec. covers or topics

• Had it our spoken to JE or GM before NY trip, and DNK any discussion of trip logistics with them subsequently (during the trip or after)

• Travel to NM, spring

• hard to remember the vague conversation of JE about summer trip.

• hard to disaggregate discussions about respective trips. And no diary atrid for them.

• Very little memory of how the trip was planned

• thing to do (visit to NM) to facilitate the summer trip

• DNR specifies about NM trip planning — believe it was more impromptu,

not something planned a couple months out, e.g.¶

• at that point, was in contact with JE, believe she talked via phone of JE but no specific recollection.

• Now got the ticket? DNR. Mailed vs. picked up at airport, e.g. - DNR

• Now got to airport? DNR- believe drove her.

• Any knowledge or recollection of GM being part of the planning?

No. And he/she met or talked to GM prior to trip.¶

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• Had talked w/ GM before the trip?

• No.

• Know GM would be there, but DNR how she knew that

• DNR why she knew man was aware GM would be there

• DNR JE saying GM knew was traveling or would be there

• DNR GM saying GM knew was going to be there, during the trip

• Believe may have spoken directly to JE one or more times, but not sure, and DNR any discussion of NM trip of JE directly. DNR for planned.

• Trip to NM, spring

• picked up by driver, taken to rand, go to house

• who else there? GM + JE + staff

• weeked trip, primarily the three of them

• recall specifics of meeting or interaction w/ GM?

• No. Generally remember her being warm + nice.

• DNR GM saying anything about the travel or trip, or having expected her to be there

• Seemed interested in effective, but DNR specifics

• Shipping trip: high - and natural food store

• western store, cowboy boots

• believed JE was there but not positive

• Foot massage: - GM was massaging JE foot, suggested to □ that do the same to his other foot. Felt uncomfortable.

GM was lighthearted but also indirectly how to massage foot. □ that time, limited to massaging and talking about the foot massage¶

• DNR specifies on: what JE was saying

• DNK if being sexualized or going beyond massaging JE foot

• Discussion ✓ GM re: How old?

• No, DNR age, but talked about high school things that were coming up. Believer may have mentioned trip pre-senior year, may have mentioned jr. prom. Talked re: school, homework.

But DNR specific discussion of age + DNR exact specifics re: events.¶

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• NM movie trip

• after foot massage

• believe went shopping + then to the movies, same shopping ending

• described before

• seating arrangement? believe JE was in the middle, not 100%

sure but believed JE was between GM¶

• JE held hand, caresed arm

• was dreaming going to the movie 5/6 of movie experience in NY, unanticipated

• JE rushed her leg during the movie

• JE wasn’t trying to hide it, believes

• GM was present, would have been in full view

• recalls JE using his hand next to but possible

I used she had but not sure on way or other¶

• Believer it was the majority of the movie; not fleeting contact, prolonged

• No discussion by anyone about this afterward, no mention by GM

• No touching at breast, quirable, private area during movie

• Re: diary, had stopped writing in the diary before the NM trip, stopped in August Feb. (royal guess). So atlief around NY visit but not NM (but didn’t just skip NM — had stopped writing more quickly)

• GM massage of

• massage had been a general topic — that they (massages) were great, they (JE.GM) had massages, GM suggested giving a massage, had never given no before

• went to the bathroom, laid under the sheet, undressed separately

• DNR specifics of any instructions by GM, re: taking clothes off (or not), but generalities

• GM said to turn over during the massage, moved the sheet down and exposed her breasts

• felt exposed, felt like TE might have been able to see her (flung) DNR

• nudeal around breasts, not on her nipples or nipple area

• what did they? believe no dither but possibly underwear, but no bra

• believe GM said to undress + got under the sheet, but not exact words — general recollection

• believe GM was talking, but DNR specifies — topics, etc.

• No particular expectation of touching — generally believed it would be a back massage, didn’t have such expectation (of what it would include or what it wouldn’t include, specifically)

• Was adhered a uncomfortable but not explicitly sexual — no touching of nipples, quirks, etc.

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• Incident in the bed

  • He was jovial, came into the room, he got into the lead, playful attitude, said something like that he wanted to cuddle, lay down next to

  • Wanted to get out of the situation, went to the bathroom

• Wearing?

• wearily pajamas, but not sure exactly what

• JE, wearing some clothing, believe a dress or sweatpants

• JE was behind, DNR specifically whether he was under the ones or not — could have been under cover, or on above - other under, or both above - DNR specifically

• JE ams kind of around back of her body was against the front of his body

• DNR it being a sexual touch — DNR grabbing or touching breasts or genitals. Did not, eg; feel his erect penis. Body gently against hers.

• Why got out of bed? Getting into the bed made very uncomfortable, felt like she had to endure it, briefly, and then got out. No expectation or fear of what would happen next, just uncontrollable. More than seconds long, but DNR duration — some period of minutes. Then got up + went to bathroom. DNR Maxwell being in the room.

• Told historical generally about what happened that fall.

• Like JE work bed, no particular expectation of what would happen - felt like there had been general escalation in physical contact during the weekend ourral, but DNA escalation specifically in this interaction. Didn’t have a specific expectation or fear of what might happen next, just war uncomfortable so got up.

• No subsequent discussion of this event, by + JE or GM, during trip

• DNR exactly how returned home, but believed was driven by stal to airport

• Spoke to journalist easily 2000s + FBF in 2006

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