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this. We asked her, “Who was your direct supervisor?” And she said, “Lieutenant .” Would that be accurate?¶
MR. : So, you didn’t believe that you were her direct supervisor?¶
MS. : Well, the operations lieutenant on her shift, or the activities lieutenant on her shift was her direct supervisor.¶
MR. : Okay. So, that changes every day, but I guess if we had one specific one that was a constant, would that be you?¶
MS. : No. She was dealing with me while she was out on workman’s comp, because while she was out, I was the one getting her doctor’s notes, and calling to check on her, or if she had, like, a CA-7 that needed to be filled out, so she can keep getting paid, I had to fill that out.¶
MR. : Okay. So, while she was out, up until at least the 24th of - June - 2019, that’s why she considered you her supervisor, because you were the one dealing directly with her?¶
MR. : I said, “So, that supervisor you mentioned was your first line supervisor, asked you to sign without providing you the training?” She said, “Yes.” I said, “And she didn’t, like, provide you anything to review?” She said, “No.” And I said, “She didn’t go over anything with you?” She said, “No.” I said, “Did you discuss this with her, that how can you sign something without being provided the training?”¶
She said, “Well, I just told her I wasn’t here. I was out on an injury. She said she knows, but she needed me to sign it because they need it for a program review.” I said, “What’s her first name?” And she responded, ”___.” I said, “And is she a lieutenant?” And Noel said, “She’s a - I don’t know what she is now - but she is not at MCC anymore. She’s at somewhere in Jersey.” So, with all that being said, what is your response to Ms. Noel, with her statements to us?¶
MS. : Her statement is partially¶
26¶
MS. : Her statement is partially true.¶
MS. : But once she returned to work, whoever that shift lieutenant was, would be who she would deal with.¶
MR. : Okay. So then, we asked, it says - and this is me speaking - “You mentioned you didn’t remember ever going to quarterly SHU training. This is a sign-in sheet for quarterly SHU training. I just want you to, is this your signature on there for June 26th, 2019?” And she responds, “You see how I’m the last one on the bottom of all of them?” I say, “Correct.” She says, “Because I wasn’t at the training when I came in,” she responded. “Did they provide it to you one on one, though?” She said, “No.” I said, “So, how come?” She said, “Because when I came back from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to sign because when they had program review, they need to show that I received the training. But I never did. She just asked me to sign.”¶
“That’s why I wonder why, who asked you to do that?” I said. And she said, “Lieutenant¶
MS. : I did explain to her that she needed to complete the training because we had to have it done for our program review. However, I had her do that training with the SHU lieutenant. I would have never had her sign something that she didn’t review. And the reason why her name is last on that list is because she came back to work at that time.¶
MR. : Did you ask her to sign the document for the program review, prior to the program review, without her actually taking the training?___¶
MS. : No. I explained to her that she had to complete the training because when we had our program review, they review these documents, and that is part of what they call our working papers. And if one person has - or whoever - has it missed, we get a write-up for that.¶
MR. : Did you speak with Lieutenant, and instruct him that, hey, listen, he needs to give Tova Noel the training?¶
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bottom, it says T. Noel.¶
MS. : Yes.¶
MR. : And then, does it have a date next to that one, too?¶
MS. : June 26.¶
MR. : Okay. So, that was also the June 26, 2019. So, it looks like she had the quarterly, the quarterly post training, or quarterly, what do you call it —¶
MR. : SHU training.¶
MR. : — SHU training. And then, the suicide prevention training, both signed on the same date.¶
MS. : Mm-hmm.¶
MR. : Did you give that - either one of those - sign-in sheets directly to Ms. Noel?¶
MS. : No.¶
MR. : No.¶
MS. : Because Dr. would keep her own sheet. And also, the SHU lieutenant, who completed the training, that person would get a copy of this, as well. And then, when everything was completed, they would give me back the sign-in sheets.¶
MS. : I didn’t.¶
MR. : — do you believe that Lieutenant - would it have been Lieutenant that would have provided this to you, when it was all done?¶
MS. : Yes.¶
MR. : Okay. So, he wouldn’t have provided that back to you until after June 26, 2019, after Ms. Noel signed?¶
MS. : No. Because at the time, if I had this, then the last person before her was June 23rd. So, took care of all of these people, and then, he gave it back to me. I can’t remember if he just came back after the 6th, when everybody was done, and got it. Or if he came back. Because I kept them in a binder. I keep all of these in a binder, in the admin lieutenant’s office. So, all he had to do was just come get the binder. You see what I’m saying? So, he could have came and got it, had them do whatever they needed to do. And the sheet would have already been in the binder. And then, he keeps the copy from Dr. , as well. They are supposed to keep a binder in the SHU lieutenant’s office, with¶
MR. : Okay. So, if this was all completed, if the training was done on June 6, 2019, when would you get the sign-in sheets?¶
MS. : Whenever the SHU lieutenant brought down to me. Brought them back to me.¶
MR. : Okay. So, in this case, do you believe it would have been some time shortly after June 6, 2019?¶
MS. : Well, I don’t remember that.¶
But I do remember, because these other people who weren’t there, they had to do the exact same thing, and the SHU lieutenant got with all of all them, and had them all do their training, and sign for their days. I didn’t do any of these people’s.¶
MR. : Okay. So, and the fact that, when was the - prior to T. Noel - when was the last date on that?¶
MS. : June, it looks the 23rd, and then, June 20th.¶
MR. : Okay. So, the two prior were both in the 20s. And you don’t believe you went direct to either of those two, either?¶
MS. : No. I didn’t.¶
MR. : So, do you —¶
MR. : Okay. So, on this specific training, this is, these were the statements that were made, I said, “So, there is another training that you - it says that you conducted on also June 26th, 2019, for SHU suicide prevention training. Did you also not receive that training?” Ms. Noel responded, “Yeah. I didn’t.” I responded, “You did not receive that training?” She said, “No.” I said, “Did you receive -.¶
So, there’s slides in the back that show that the training, shows the training and how they conducted it. Did they provide you with those slides?” And she responded, “No because I wasn’t there.” I said, “You weren’t there?” And she responds, “I was out on injury.” I said, “Okay. Can you - when were you out on injury? What were the dates?” And she responded, “From March 2019 to I came back in June. So, when I came back in June, that’s when I was told to sign this.” Again, is this - you believe it’s Lieutenant that actually told her to sign it?¶
MS. : It should have been. Yes.¶
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- should be. You know what I’m saying?
- Supervisor to subordinate. And like I said,
- when she came in that day, if I remember right,
- it was her first day back.
- MR. : That you had a conversation with her?
- MS. : Yeah. Because she would have had to give me that letter, saying that she was cleared to be back at work.
- MR. : But during that day, is that when she signed these documents?
- MS. : I don’t know.
- MR. : Okay.
- MS. : I’m not sure if it was during that day or not. I talked to her, and I told her she had to complete the SHU training. I do remember saying that to her.
- MR. : Okay. Now, this is going to be the last part of the transcript that I read, where I said to Ms. Noel, “And what do you - now that you’ve experienced this - what do you blame that on? Do you also blame it on, like, poor management, or like, the lack of manpower? What are your thoughts on that?”
- Ms. Noel responded, “It’s both, but every time
She would have went to the operations or the activities lieutenant. She was injured, if I remember, I think it was her ankle, but I’m not sure what it was. But once she got injured, that’s really more when our interactions started with each other, because she was out of work for such a long time. But we didn’t have any problems with each other whatsoever. Mr. : So, why do you believe that she would have stated, with such clarity, that you had her sign those documents, as opposed to Lieutenant , who we discussed also, with regarding being the SHU lieutenant? Ms. : Probably because I was the first person that spoke to her about it, and when she came back to work. That would be the only thing that I can think of. Mr. : Okay. Do you think she took it on herself to, then, sign it? After the conversation with you, as opposed to you actually physically handing her the documents? Ms. : No. I didn’t give her the - MR. : That’s —¶
1 something happens, the officers get in trouble. 2 And the problem is, it starts from the top. 3 Because if my supervisor is telling me to falsify documents, and I do it, I’m in trouble. 4 But Lieutenant , got promoted. You understand? Like, the problem starts from the top, and it comes all the way down.” So, she maintained, throughout the entire interview - this is now page 449 of the interview — 5 MS. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : — this was you. You specifically. So, if you are saying you 100 percent didn’t do this, why would she say that you were the one? Does she have an axe to grind with you? Is there something - 7 MS. : We had no problems with each other, that I’m aware of. But again, we didn’t, we didn’t have regular interactions with each other. Because when she came to work, she was not on my shift. First of all. 11 When she was at work, she barely ever worked the day shift, if I remember. And I was at work during the day shift. If she had an issue on the shift with anything, she wouldn’t have come to me.¶
1 MS. : Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : — right. That’s what I’m saying is, like, do you think, in her mind, you said you needed to conduct the SHU training and sign the form, or something to that effect. Then she took it on herself to just go sign the form, without ever actually taking the training? MS. : I couldn’t answer that, sir. 10 I’m sorry. I don’t know what she was thinking. 11 Mr. : Yeah. No. I mean, we just have to -. So, if she is stating this, and if we go to Lieutenant , and he says, I didn’t have her sign it, I’m just trying - we’re just, we got to try to, you know — 16 MS. : Because — 17 MR. : — as you know, with this investigation, there are a ton of different elements. 18 MS. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : This is just one of many. 20 MS. : Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : But we have to reconcile them. 25 MS. : Mm-hmm.¶
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| 77 | 78 | |
| 1 | MS.: | Okay. |
| 2 | MR.: | Training, and the slide shows. But those slide shows are for each respective training? |
| 3 | MS.: | Oh, this is suicide prevention for Special Housing Unit. |
| 4 | MR.: | Right. So, that would be this one. Correct? With Dr. on the top. |
| 5 | MS.: | This is the same thing. |
| 6 | It's just a different -. No, it's not. It's just a different -. This is a different version of this. | |
| 7 | MR.: | Okay. So, they are both suicide prevention. Neither of them are the quarterly SHU trainings? |
| 8 | MS.: | No. |
| 9 | MR.: | Okay. Great. |
| 10 | MR.: | This one is the first -- |
| 11 | MS.: | No. None of -- |
| 12 | MR.: | -- after that. |
| 13 | MR.: | Okay. |
| 14 | MS.: | -- neither one of these is the quarterly SHU training. |
| 15 | MR.: | Okay. Perfect. Thank |
| 79 | CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber | |
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