DOJ OIG interview with Jeffrey Epstein's brother on questions about the death

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MR. ___: Yeah. Can we verify?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Sure.¶

MR. ___: Or you can just ask your birthday, date of birth.¶

MR. ___: Yeah.¶

MR. ___: It’s one or the other.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Oh, it’s only my driver’s license.¶

MR. ___: Mr. Mark Epstein has shown me a photo, driver’s license, and it has his picture on it, and it states his name on it.¶

Just for the record, here is my credentials.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Okay.¶

MR. ___: I’m a Special Agent with the DOJ/OIG.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Okay.¶

MR. ___: And these are my credentials. Senior Special Agent —¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Okay.¶

MR. ___: —¶

You can go now.¶

MR. ___: Go ahead.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. As I mentioned before, before you came, I told them that, when¶

And then, we can get the body, afterwards, to do a second autopsy, if needed. But because of who Barton is, they did whatever he requested them to do with the autopsy. So, there was no need for a second autopsy. Barton, also, has been on the Special Commission, investigating prison deaths, since the Attica riots in 1970. So, he’s been doing this for a long time.¶

There’s no better authority in prison deaths than Barton. And the city pathologist came out with Dr. Barton, and her determination was, she could not call this a suicide. There was too many questionable things, you know, like the broken bones in his neck. And Barton confirmed that, he also, could not to call this a suicide. It was much more like a homicide. Plus, there were other wounds on his body. I’m, like, I have pictures I could show you. And then, when we got the death certificate, you need the death certificate in order to recover his body, the cause of death was pending. You know, pending for an investigation. And then, a few days later, the Chief Medical Examiner of New York declares it a suicide.¶

I first heard of Jeffrey’s death, I just assumed that it was a suicide, because it was reported as such, and that time, I had no reason to doubt it. And I just respected his decision to take himself out. But then, as things progressed, and when more information came out, it looks like, if you just looked at the information, there’s no way in the world you would say it was a suicide. The first thing being the autopsy. The autopsy was conducted the next day. It was conducted by the city pathologist. And I was right, I was able to get a pathologist to witness this, and had Dr. Barton (Phonetic Sp. *00:03:00). I don’t know if you know Dr. Barton, but you can’t get a —¶

MS. : He’s the former Chief Medical Examiner of the city of New York.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah.¶

MS. : So, he went back to his office because he was hired by Mark to review, and be present, at the autopsy.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Normally, if I hire a forensic pathologist to review the autopsy, he has the right to just stand there and watch.¶

MS. : Just to clarify. We found out, through the media, they were going to make that change. So, we called the Medical Examiner’s Office, asking how come you haven’t notified the family, and what is the central reason for changing this? We interviewed them for about, hmm, an hour. And we discovered that they really didn’t have much of a basis. But everybody was just closing the investigation. And when I persisted, is when I learned the camera on the floor, where Mr. Epstein’s cell was, had been corrupted. And no one had actually viewed that camera.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Now, one of the questions about the camera on the tier, I don’t know, there’s some pictures of, you know, we’re walking through the tier, and (Indiscernible *00:05:08) all the cameras, right? That camera wasn’t working. So, one of the questions I have is, when did that camera stop working? When was the last time that camera actually took a picture, you know, and have they determined why that camera wasn’t working? Were the wires cut?¶

Was it unplugged, or, you know, why was¶

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10 that camera not working? There is an answer to that. You know, and I am going to get it. I had, I could start showing some pictures, but to keep going on, you know, they did, they swabbed - under autopsy report - they swabbed his fingers for DNA evidence, in case somebody was there. Was that ever checked? I never saw the results of that DNA testing. You know, nothing has been (Indiscernible *00:05:50) for that.¶

And one of the things that lit up my mind on top of this, one of the big things is that, Attorney General Barr made a statement, saying that he viewed the camera that was outside of the tier, that showed the door, and the guards, as that’s directly right between, that the guards were just, you know, jerking off, or (Indiscernible *00:06:09) web, or whatever they were doing. And he said that nobody went - that he personally saw it, which I thought was strange. You know, that nobody went in or out of the tier.¶

So, that convinced them it was a suicide. You guys are professional investigators. I am¶

11 and he was released, and there was supposed to be somebody in his cell, and there wasn’t, and he was taken out. He was alone that night, in his cell. And so, other, like, like evidentiary things, they report that he was found unresponsive in his cell. And then was taken to the hospital. He wasn’t found unresponsive. He was found dead. Okay? Jeffrey was dead for a minimum of two hours before they found him. And I will show you how we know that.¶

MS.: Also, talk about the description of the (Indiscernible *00:07:45).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A whole bunch of things. I got - I have a list of the number of the photos. I left it at home, unfortunately, but I will pull them up, and have a look.¶

MR.: Now, are you going to show us why you know that he was dead for at least two hours?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah.¶

MR.: Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I’m going to get to that picture. As soon as I can.¶

10 not. But for me, the lights went off, I said, either this is the stupidest guy on the planet, or, if Jeffrey was killed, the killer was already on the tier. So, it’s just things that might be come into the tier to kill him, I mean, there’s too many witnesses, how do you get somebody in or out? But if he was killed, the killer was already on the tier.¶

So, for him to make the statement that no one went in or out, that convinced him it was a suicide. I mean, that’s like a, I think we agree, it was like an amateur mistake in the investigations, because there were a number of people inside. Right? Well, let me pull up something to show you.¶

MS.: Okay.¶

MR.: On that note, do you have any information that anyone was actually in his cell?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: There was nobody in his cell.¶

MS.: Well, was -.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: There was supposed to be somebody in his cell. Because he was supposedly on suicide watch, doing whatever,¶

12 MR.: Just for the recording, I’m just going to state that Mr. Epstein has his own laptop, and he is providing us -. He is just going to explain the pictures to us.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah.¶

MR.: In your custody.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Also, in the autopsy —¶

MS.: And the picture is from the autopsy.¶

MR.: From the autopsy.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah. They also found, you know, three broken bones in his neck. Which is extremely rare to have one broken bone, when you do what’s called a soft hanging. You have, like, Robin Williams hung himself with a bathrobe thing. With the belt thing. Those are soft hangings. You usually don’t break bones, and he had three breaks. Which is one of the reasons they thought it was more like a homicide. If you -¶

MR.: So, what we’re looking at is, do you know which bones we’re talking about?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: It’s the hyoid bone.¶

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Something like the hyoid, is what it’s called.¶

MR. ❶: And did they ever —¶

MR. EPSTEIN: And it really isn’t -.¶

MR. ❷: discuss anything about chest compressions? Would that potentially have happened during CPR?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No.¶

MS. ❸: No.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No. This is the neck.¶

MS. ❹: Chest compressions are lower.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Chest compressions. It can break ribs. Not the higher.¶

MS. ❺: So.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: It felt pretty useful. See, this is the camera that wasn’t working.¶

MR. ❻: Right.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: That would show him (Indiscernible *00:09:09).¶

MR. ❽: And they provide you with all of this?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah.¶

MR. ❾: Okay.¶

MS. ❿: (Indiscernible *00:09:24) releases.¶

the Shawshank Redemption, when Brooks kicked himself off the chair, you know, and fall down. That’s (Indiscernible *00:10:23), because it has to be harsh like that. The top bunk in Jeffrey’s cell was filled with his medications (Indiscernible *00:10:29). Nobody was on that bunk. Nobody jumped off that bunk. I’m just looking for the neck pictures. Also, let me go back one second. Shit, I apologize for not having that list.¶

MS. ❺: (Indiscernible *00:10:54).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Uh-huh. Also, what, another question I have is, who was in charge in the prison? Who -? First of all, they moved the body, which you’re not supposed to do. And supposedly, they photographed the body, you know, when they find a dead body in prison, they’re not supposed to move it. They’re supposed to get the Medical Examiner’s Office, so they can (Indiscernible *00:11:17) surprise. I mean, no matter how you look at it, he was moved.¶

Now, if you saw the photographs, when they took him out of the hospital, he was on a gurney, and he was intubated. They were trying¶

MR. : Really?¶

MS. : Mm-hmm.¶

MR. : (Indiscernible *00:09:28)?¶

MS. : (Indiscernible *00:09:28).¶

MR. : Oh, for the statement of information in?¶

MS. : That was just released (Indiscernible *00:09:33). And announced by the (Indiscernible *00:09:39).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Do you get involved with murder investigations? Is that part of the normally? I mean, do you have, like, any forensic experience on that?¶

MR. : So, our investigation pertains to the death of —¶

MR. EPSTEIN: All right.¶

MR. : — Jeffrey.¶

(Indiscernible *00:09:59).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. One thing I’ll show you now, before we get to it is that the only way they was trying to say that, well, he put a noose on his neck, and sort of jumped off the top bunk. That would give him that breaks, or it would be harsh. You know, like, if you saw¶

to squeeze the tube with no air in it. It said, he’s dead for two hours. Why were they trying to make it look like he was alive?¶

Like, these are -. The EMTs - and I would like to talk to them - it’s , and I think it’s , them two EMTs. If I recall, they’re the EMTs that were actually in the cell.¶

MR. : Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Now, just, let me go back one second. Here is another picture of the top bunk. You see, nobody was there. So, I would like to talk to those two guys.¶

MR. : Yeah.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: This is the noose. Right? Look at that. When the guards found him, the guy was quoted as saying that he cut him down. And I think the guard said . The guard that found him. He said he cut him down. Yeah. You see the edge of his noose thing?¶

That’s a hemmed edge. That wasn’t cut. Okay? If this was tied to something, this would be wrinkled. It would be marked from there, you know, like, here, you see, like, creases in this part? There would be something here,¶

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MR. EPSTEIN: He could have been for six hours. But a minimum of two. That’s Dr. Barton’s, you know, opinion, which I take is more of (Indiscernible *00:16:04), as opposed to it. That’s not a sheet. That looks more like an electric cord. Also, you see these marks above the groove line?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: If you hang yourself, and you put something around your neck, and you hang yourself, okay, it’s going to slip up. It’s going to go high on your neck. If anything, the skin below that mark is going to be abraded. Or roughed up. Because the nooses¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Somebody over there.¶

MR. : Do you have a specific name?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No. Okay. This is the stuff. Where is the little blood vessels broken, because there’s a cut on his lip here. Look at that. There’s a bruise on the back of his neck here. Oh, there’s another question I had before I forget, is in the paperwork, the last guards to see him was Tova Noel and there’s an unnamed guard number one and an unnamed guard number two (Indiscernible *00:19:43). You see here, it’s like as if there’s ligature. This is the autopsy. Another thing you should be investigating, assuming he was killed, is who’s on the ward; who are the prisoners on the ward? Because I was also told, and this was through somebody who has been reliable, through an attorney of somebody who was on the ward, he said that cell door (Indiscernible *00:21:47). So, you know, there is an old saying that anyone can commit murder, but it takes an artist to commit¶

You know, where these marks above the line. That means also, if you hang yourself, that line goes up towards your ears. You strangle with a garrote, that’s the more straight back. I mean, the line goes all the way back and that’s what to expect. Okay? So, here’s the closer look. The better look. That’s not the noose, it’s not a sheet doing that. That’s being abraded from that. Also, his eyes. And I’m going to have pictures of it. When you strangle, you know, the little blood vessels in your eyes burst. The —¶

suicide. If this was done, somebody who was put on that ward to do this. The cell doors are electronically locked. He was killed, went back to his cell, and what I also heard is after the fact, a lot of prisoners are transferred off (Indiscernible *00:22:18). So someone was planted there to do this. I don’t know if he’s lost (Indiscernible *00:22:23), find out who was on that ward, you know, that was two weeks practically.¶

MR. : Who told you that someone was (Indiscernible *00:22:29)?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: A journalist.¶

(Indiscernible *00:22:29). He lied.¶

MR. : Ah. Now, that is something we would very much like to follow up on (Indiscernible *00:22:41)? Was there any -?¶

Can you talk to someone about how that would (Indiscernible *00:22:44), or not?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I will ask, if I can get you the (Indiscernible *00:22:48).¶

MR. : Okay.¶

MS. : (Indiscernible *00:22:52) it was there at night. (Indiscernible *00:23:11).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I’ve also heard that¶

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1 there’s, like, 20 plus guards that were, like, 2 there that, furlough, that haven’t worked since. (Indiscernible *00:23:24) 4 MR. EPSTEIN: That’s the same noose on the floor? 5 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 6 MS. : Absolutely. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 8 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:23:35) 9 Back to the tier. 10 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. That’s -. Yeah. 13 Yeah. That’s not cut. It’s kind of (Indiscernible *00:23:45) And it’s not, you know, I mean, it’s pretty standard sizes, I believe. And this would be discolored from the secretions of his neck, (Indiscernible *00:23:54) Things I will also tell you is that, in 2016 election, my brother didn’t tell me why he (Indiscernible *00:24:08) What he told me is he said what he knew about (Indiscernible *00:24:10), Trump (Indiscernible *00:24:13), because they would have to cancel the election. My brother is also (Indiscernible¶

27 as a criminal, as a bad guy. A troublemaker. (Indiscernible *00:25:30) So, it’s justice from, you can put people in prison that have (Indiscernible *00:25:34) 5 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 6 MR. EPSTEIN: That’s (Indiscernible *00:25:35) I was told to by somebody. So, yeah. So, also, the thing I wanted to show you here, the reason I - honestly, to be honest with you - I think Trump is behind it. If someone was closer on the inside told me Trump (Indiscernible *00:25:53) after his death, you know, someone who knows more about this shit than I do. MR. EPSTEIN: Well, when you say that Trump was a crook, or that your brother said that he (Indiscernible *00:26:00) can you give more information other than just that? MR. EPSTEIN: No. He didn’t tell me that, but if you were a legal business man, you would know that Trump is a crook. Everybody knows trump is a crook. That’s why no legitimate real estate people would deal with him. MR. EPSTEIN: And when you say, “Crook,” though, can you just kind of -¶

10*00:24:19). He’s worked with Steve Bannon, 2 who’s worked with (Indiscernible *00:24:19). 3 Steve Bannon has 16 hours of video tape. 4 (Indiscernible *00:24:27). I know this because my brother said he worked with him. And on that day, he said he stopped hanging out with Trump, when he realized (Indiscernible *00:24:37). In the papers, they’re reading he stopped hanging out with Trump, and, like, he fell apart (Indiscernible *00:24:39). It was bullshit. Everybody was, like, (Indiscernible *00:24:44). He stopped hanging out with Trump when he realized Trump was a dick. That’s exactly what he said. And I think (Indiscernible *00:24:57). All right. And I don’t have any proof, but if this was a murder, then the government would probably (Indiscernible *00:25:05). And I Know, also, that hurting somebody else in a federal prison, that the DEA agent transported to a maximum security. He’s a real bad ass and carried on, and felt even worse. You know, he was brought out to be (Indiscernible *00:25:21). They handcuffed him before they uncuff him, and he was a DEA agent who was getting the credibility¶

1 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He — 2 MR. EPSTEIN: — explain that. 3 MR. EPSTEIN: — he robs people. He probably close to the wealth he has comes from the money he didn’t pay people. He screwed over, over and over again. And he gets - pays them, like, a percentage of what he owes them, they sign non-disclosure agreements. That’s how he slides. And everybody knew that. Yeah. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: All right. (VIDEO PLAYS) 5 MR. EPSTEIN: Now, this video was from before my brother’s death. (Indiscernible *00:26:49). But wait, I’m going to get to the beginning of the part. 6 MS. : Some of the information about that is also in that book that just came out (Indiscernible *00:27:03), when you were talking about (Indiscernible *00:27:08). 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, let me see if I can (Indiscernible *00:27:12). Oh, he asked them (Indiscernible *00:27:17). All right. So, this is before he died. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: So, we’re looking at — 9 MR. EPSTEIN: I’ve met Trump.¶

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MR. EPSTEIN: — President Trump there, as well as a news reporter. MR. EPSTEIN: O’Reilly, Bill O’Reilly. MR. EPSTEIN: Bill O’Reilly. MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *00:27:54). MR. EPSTEIN: Do you know when that was done? MR. EPSTEIN: It was prior to the death. That was. MR. EPSTEIN: Prior to the death. MR. EPSTEIN: But, you know, I mean, personally, I think Wooody was jealous that people (Indiscernible *00:28:06), and wanted to take that power. That’s the kind of person Trump is. (Indiscernible *00:28:14). You know? MS. EPSTEIN: I noticed that’s not your strongest argument. MR. EPSTEIN: No. It’s not my strongest argument. It’s, that’s an opinion. Okay? But this is my strongest argument. MR. EPSTEIN: So, when is the last time you spoke with Jeffrey? MR. EPSTEIN: The Thursday night before he was arrested.¶

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Allen, though. So, he would tell me funny things that Woody Allen said. I guess Woody Allen is a funny guy. MR. EPSTEIN: So — MR. EPSTEIN: You know, we just amuse other. Just keep check. MR. EPSTEIN: — I don’t know where we heard this information from, but I was told, I was informed that you were estranged for, like, a number of years. Is that not correct? MR. EPSTEIN: No. No. MS. EPSTEIN: You didn’t seen him. MR. EPSTEIN: I haven’t seen him. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: My mother died in 2004. Or - yeah - . 2004. Since that time, maybe I saw him a handful of times. And the last time was seven years prior to his death. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. So, you hadn’t seen him for seven years — MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. MR. EPSTEIN: — but you spoke over the telephone a number of few weeks? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, yeah. And emailed. Yeah. Yeah.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: DO you remember around when that date would have been? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. July 8th and 9th or something. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: On a thursday night. MR. EPSTEIN: So, 2019? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah. It was right before his death. So, he called me if he was in Paris. He called me, just the usual, you know, (Indiscernible *00:28:41). You know? And then, next day, he, you know, flew back. And he was arrested that Friday. (Indiscernible *00:28:50). Saturday morning, his attorneys called me and told me he was arrested. MR. EPSTEIN: And how often would you talk with Jeffrey up until then? MR. EPSTEIN: We would talk every couple of weeks, or something like that. A week. A month. That, you know, we email something. Whatever. You know? Just keep trying, and I kept telling him what’s happening with the family stuff, and he would tell me funny stories. When - he used to hang out with Woody¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. And email? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. It’s, like, for instance, I mean, I have the email exchange, and when he sent me the video clip, that Bannon had sent him (Indiscernible *00:29:52), you know? And I asked him, you know, what was this for. You know, and he said the (Indiscernible *00:30:00) testimony. I said, you were subpoenaed? MR. EPSTEIN: Mm-hmm. MR. EPSTEIN: He said, no. (Indiscernible *00:30:03). He was just, he was doing stuff. And, you know, he just, he said he, I thought (Indiscernible *00:30:09), he thought I would find it funny. I remember, it was, like, he was had a beer in the video, and I’ve never seen my brother with a beard before. So, I wrote back. I said, the funniest part is, you were with a beard. And he wrote back and he said that you could tell who I was? My disguise didn’t work. You know, it was just, it was just a banter between two brothers. (Indiscernible *00:30:26). MR. EPSTEIN: So — MR. EPSTEIN: So, that was the last time I¶

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spoke to him, was that Thursday night before he was (Indiscernible *00:30:32). Mr. EPSTEIN: Okay. Do you know anything about his state of mind leading up to — MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. I know who he spoke to the day before he died. MR. EPSTEIN: And who did he speak with? MR. EPSTEIN: He spoke to someone who was close to him. I mean, and they had (Indiscernible *00:30:45). Not a clue they were very surprised that this happened. And most of his, one of the attorneys gave a (Indiscernible *00:30:50) was publicly saying that he spoke to Jeffrey, Jeffrey was very upbeat. He also thought he had a good case, using (Indiscernible *00:30:56) non-prosecution agreement he had, from Florida, from years back. So, and also, when Jeffrey was first arrested, his attorneys called me and asked me if I would, back and help him with his bail. They said it’s helpful for other people to participate in the bail. Because they should have. Put him in the house in¶

But that’s the highest bail they ruled on. When they were going through the appeal on the bail, his attorneys called me up and asked me if I would guarantee his entire bail. And it has since doubled. And I agreed to it. Mr. EPSTEIN: Okay. Mr. EPSTEIN: And so, there might have been a chance he got bail in two days. MS. EPSTEIN: Right. Mr. EPSTEIN: And then, he would have been under house arrest. He would have paid for guards. They would have an ankle monitor. Camera. Whatever it would take to do this all. So, if you - and I think, you know, if he was going to go take himself out, wait two fucking days. You know, if you got bail, then you at least, you’re home for a year before the trial comes up, if nothing else. (Indiscernible *00:32:46). Doesn’t make sense. Mr. Epstein: Yeah. Mr. Epstein: If Jeffrey went. I don’t think Jeffrey would do that. Mr. Epstein: So, you did actually agree to the bail— Mr. Epstein: Yes.¶

Florida(Indiscernible *00:31:15). I know Jeffrey was not going to flee. He wasn’t flee. (Indiscernible *00:31:19). Not that he would do that anyhow. Because he (Indiscernible *00:31:23). And that’s what put me on the map. Most people didn’t even know Jeff had a brother. Mr. Epstein: Okay. Mr. Epstein: We had a social life together. And so, that’s where my head, dating back, you know, refer to it as a (Indiscernible *00:31:36) proctologist. Every journalist on the planet would (Indiscernible *00:31:38) to try to find some dirt on me, to try to make me tell this kind of stuff. (Indiscernible *00:31:45). But yeah, he had two separate lives. And so, bail was denied. And then, he had a bail hearing coming up two days after he died. And this time – and he was pretty up, like, you know, his jets, the house, close to 100 million dollars’ worth of stuff for the bail. The highest bail in the United States ever was 100 million dollars. Some South American, Central American, (Indiscernible *00:32:09).¶

Mr. EPSTEIN: — to (Indiscernible *00:32:54) close to the bail? Mr. EPSTEIN: Yes. Mr. EPSTEIN: And that was two days after he was found? Mr. EPSTEIN: No, no, no. Ms. EPSTEIN: That’s the day — Mr. EPSTEIN: The hearing was supposed to — I agree — Mr. EPSTEIN: That’s right. Mr. EPSTEIN: — I agreed before he was dead, but the hearing was supposed to take place —. Like, he died. I think it was August 9th. Or something. The hearing was scheduled for, like, 11th or something. There was, like, a two-day gap. Mr. EPSTEIN: And then, do you remember how much the bail was? Mr. EPSTEIN: Close to 100 million. Mr. EPSTEIN: It was close to 100? Mr. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Mr. EPSTEIN: Okay. Mr. EPSTEIN: Still, just to clarify, you mentioned 100 million dollar bail, and you guaranteed it on top of it. So, that was¶

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1 technically 200 million? MR. EPSTEIN: Right. And his friend put up some. I don’t know how much David put up. But he was also in the initial pool at first, (Indiscernible *00:33:31) house. In Florida. David had also put up some (Indiscernible *00:33:35). David Michell is the one who -. The friend I heard he was reaching, you know, (Indiscernible *00:33:40). MR. EPSTEIN: Now, as far as the person that he - were you saying that he spoke with someone on the telephone, prior to August 9th or 10th? MR. EPSTEIN: The night -MR. EPSTEIN: Or something. MR. EPSTEIN: — the evening before he died, because it was (Indiscernible *00:33:54), yeah. MR. EPSTEIN: And was that a female? MR. EPSTEIN: Yes, it was. MR. EPSTEIN: And do you want to say the name of it, and ask if that’s correct. MR. EPSTEIN: Is the name Katrina Shuliac? MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. MR. EPSTEIN: Is that who he spoke to?¶

*00:34:44). MR. EPSTEIN: She did? MR. EPSTEIN: I believe it to be so, and I found pictures. MR. EPSTEIN: And have you seen -? Have you spoken with her since August 9, 2019? MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. Yes. MR. EPSTEIN: Did she tell you what the conversation, what took place during the conversation? MR. EPSTEIN: Just that he was -. He sounded upbeat, and is that she didn’t think he committed suicide. Because it didn’t sound like he was going to do that. MR. EPSTEIN: But did she say anything that they talked about, though? MR. EPSTEIN: No. I didn’t want to get too personal. And you, know, at the time it was , like, you know, my brother is dead, I (Indiscernible *00:35:08) conversation that I need to know. You know? MR. EPSTEIN: When did you speak with her? MR. EPSTEIN: A number of times since then.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. MR. EPSTEIN: And you spoke to -. Who is Katrina Shuliac to Mr. Epstein? MR. EPSTEIN: A friend. MR. EPSTEIN: A childhood friend, a long-time friend? MR. EPSTEIN: A number of years. MR. EPSTEIN: Were they in a relationship, or -? MR. EPSTEIN: His exact nature of it, I don’t know, because I didn’t know of her. But I know she’s been -. I just found out she was in the picture a number of years. I believe eight years. MR. EPSTEIN: In a romantic relationship? MR. EPSTEIN: I believe so. Yeah. MS. EPSTEIN: But you didn’t know confirmation? You had, like -. MR. EPSTEIN: I can’t ask Jeff. MS. EPSTEIN: Right. Obviously. MR. EPSTEIN: Have you spoken with her? MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. MR. EPSTEIN: And did she say that they were in a romantic relationship? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. (Indiscernible¶

*00:35:18)? MR. EPSTEIN: That was -. I don’t remember the exact date. But I think it was just a few weeks of the death. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. But she didn’t tell you anything specifically why he contacted her, or what they spoke about? MR. EPSTEIN: No. MR. EPSTEIN: No. Just that he sounded upbeat? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He was. Yeah. That’s, like, she made (Indiscernible *00:35:41). MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: Was she surprised that he called her? MR. EPSTEIN: I don’t -. I don’t know if -. I don’t know. To be honest with you. I didn’t ask her that much. She didn’t say, oh, shit, yeah, I didn’t get any kind of reaction from her. (Indiscernible *00:35:41) MR. EPSTEIN: All right.¶

EFTA00113469¶

1. MR. : Do you know if Jeffrey changed his will leading up to August 9th?
2. MR. EPSTEIN: I was told he changed his will. He did. Now, traditionally, my brother and I were not in each other’s wills. Because I don’t need his money, he doesn’t need my money. So, he changed the will, from my understanding.
3. Now, I’m not the executive of his estate. I had nothing to do with his estate. The executives don’t even talk to me.
4. (Indiscernible *00:36:23) or anything. But from what I understand, all of his assets were put into a trust. Or they were supposed to be put into a trust, after Jeffrey died. And they paid out all the money to the victims, and his (Indiscernible *00:36:35). And the trust dictates what happens to his money. I’m not the trustee and I’m not privy to his trust.
5. MR. : Who did you hear it from, that he put it in the will? He changed the will.
6. MR. EPSTEIN: Well, it was public knowledge. Yeah. And his attorneys also told me that he changed his will. But this is in the papers. This was (Indiscernible

1 first-hand knowledge of it. 2. MR. : And you’ve never gotten to speak to his attorneys? They never disclosed the information? 3. MR. EPSTEIN: Not very much. No. Hmm-mm. 4. MR. : Okay. So, just the papers. Other than having that conversation with (Indiscernible *00:37:53), have you spoken with anyone on the outside? 5. MR. EPSTEIN: No. 6. MR. : Right? 7. MR. EPSTEIN: Oh, so, David Shone (Phonetic Sp. *00:37:56), the attorney, who was going to go ask me, because he also said that (Indiscernible *00:38:01) suicide. Yeah. I was surprised because he felt - He said Jeff felt positive about the defense they were going to go with you, in the prosecution. 8. MR. : And David Shone met them on Friday? 9. MR. EPSTEIN: Excuse me? 10. MR. : You mentioned a David Shone met with them on Friday. 11. MR. EPSTEIN: No, no, no, no. David Shone, had met with him in jail, I think, 12. MR. : And he was trying to use that as well, he was contemplating suicide. I think maybe he was contemplating being killed in prison and wanted to make sure that his will was up to date. I don’t think it was fear - I don’t think it was fear of suicide. I mean, you know, I don’t think he was planning suicide. I think if anything, he was (Indiscernible *00:37:14) about being in prison. (Indiscernible *00:37:16) stories. 13. MR. : And do you know anything about him, like, being placed on suicide watch, and taken off? Do you know anything -? 14. MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He was placed on suicide watch, and he was taken off. Exactly the reasons? I don’t know. They never told me. 15. MR. : Do you know if anyone from the outside, such as his attorneys, or anybody like that, called anyone to ask him to be taken off of suicide watch? 16. MR. EPSTEIN: Only what was in the papers. So — 17. MR. : Okay. 18. MR. EPSTEIN: — so, I don’t have any¶

before he died. Not that day. I think it was before. 19. MR. : You mentioned something about a non-prosecution from Florida. Can you explain that? 20. MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. In 2006, I think it was, when he first got in trouble in Florida, you know, when he got back whatever, he got his sweetheart deal. Which I was told, he got a sweetheart deal because the girls that were claiming to be victims were actually determined to be very unreliable witnesses. Because they found their Facebook pages with drugs and sex. And one of the girls was a prostitute with her mother, you know, all kinds of - 21. These are not clean-cut little Catholic school girls. You know, so, he got made the deal back in 2006, and part of the deal was he had to sign the prosecution agreement for him and the other unnamed individuals. I don’t know. It’s - And that’s what he was living on ever since. You know, just, there’s been no, from what I understand, I haven’t seen any evidence that he was with underaged women past¶

EFTA00113470¶

1. that point in time. And he got out of jail, and did that, you know, 13 month sentence he had and was in jail for (Indiscernible *00:39:23).
2. He got a house. You know, he got that work release - (Indiscernible *00:39:29). He got a good deal. After that, I mean, we used to - there’s a joke around with him. You know, and I told him, you know, I’m his brother and said, set up a passport scanner in front of your door, (Indiscernible *00:39:39). Tell your girl that comes in, she has to show that she’s at least 18. Yeah, you have - You know, we’re joking around. So, and as far as I know, there have been no claims of him being with underaged women. And all the stuff that he, well, I don’t think it’s the case, but yes.
3. MR.: You mentioned the non-prosecution agreement, as the fact that he believed he was getting out of prison.
4. MR. EPSTEIN: No, no. He got out of prison. He served his time he was sentenced to. But at that time - and this is public - he had a non-prosecution agreement with the federal government. You know, the same one,
5. things just for be provocative.
6. Now, he had a very extensive video room, when we first walk into the house on the right. Because I was there years ago. With lots of monitors. But they were all on the outside of the building, for security. And inside the front door, and inside the backdoor. There wasn’t cameras throughout the house. And I’ve spoken with people who knew the house, people who worked at the house. And they, like I said, that extensive video system, that house didn’t exist.
7. But the FBI got this information that it did. And then, a few months later, he gets arrested, and they break into his house with a search warrant, and I would like to see that search warrant. This is what - Because in the search warrant, you have to state what you’re looking for. Right? You can’t use it as a fishing expedition. So, what is it they were looking for? Because they broke into his house, and they cut the safe open. But you heard that he had about $70,000 in cash, and diamonds.
8. Well, he’s a very wealthy man. He’s

that was the Southern District, or whatever, what Florida park, or I don’t know, the like, the lingo. I don’t get in trouble, so I’m not up on the (Indiscernible *00:40:21). You know, and, you know, as far as I know, this one is federal government. 9. MR.: (Indiscernible *00:40:24) 10. MR. EPSTEIN: And if you make a deal in a non-prosecution agreement, with the federal government, well, that’s the federal government. It’s not like the New York people, federal here have the right to break off the agreement. 11. So, was it, why was he arrested? You know, another theory about that - 12. Mr.: Mm-hmm. 13. MR. EPSTEIN: — okay, is that in the screen, before he was arrested, one of the victims went to the FBI, and said that she was in his house, on Seventy First Street, and he had this extensive camera system, in all the rooms, all the bathrooms, all this kind of stuff. Now, the one thing about Jeffrey is that Jeffrey was a bull shitter. He would say¶

allowed to have cash and diamonds. You know, and he had some expired, old passport for some (Indiscernible *00:41:55). (Indiscernible *00:41:57) long story for that. But what were they looking for? Who was (Indiscernible *00:42:00) to get into this house to look for - ? Who were they looking for? Are they looking for the tapes of somebody on the street? They had some tapes. That did not exist. Which didn’t exist. 11. And then, he was arrested, and you know, gets killed. And like I said, he set up as a crook. I said, he had enough dirt on both candidates to have election cancelled in 2016. This doesn’t alleviate - If you forget everything else, everything I showed you here, and everything you know now, would you just say, yes, it was a suicide? I wouldn’t. And not because - like I said - not because I’m his brother. It just doesn’t add up as a suicide. 12. Like I said, and trust me, if he committed suicide, my life would have been a lot easier this time. 13. I’ve had death threats, I’ve been in touch with the FBI and NYPD for the last two years.¶

EFTA00113471¶

And I have hired armed guards for. When I met with Steve Bannon, after I saw the tape that my brother sent me after his death, I contacted Steve Bannon, I wanted to find out what this was about. You know? And I know that Bannon, I actually had armed guards. I didn’t, because I didn’t know who was (Indiscernible *00:43:11). I knew him walking to a hotel, and be taking out the garbage (Indiscernible *00:43:13), like the show, you know?¶

And armed guards. And Bannon’s told me about the 16 hours of tape, and he told me that the -. He said that the tape should protect him, and that by attorney/client privilege, as witness preparation. But Bannon is not an attorney.¶

MR. : And which tapes are we talking about right now?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: The 16 hours of video tape interviews that (Indiscernible *00:43:33) with my brother.¶

MR. : Off of what we’ve talked about, at least thus far, who do you think we should speak with, that would have the firsthand knowledge that would be willing to¶

speak with us?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Well, I think you should talk to the guards. The EMT guards.¶

and I think it’s (Phonetic Sp. *00:43:52). Or something O’Shawnasee. Those are the two EMT guards.¶

MR. : Mm-hmm.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Find out from them who was directing the operations in the prison. Why did they move the body out when they weren’t supposed to move the body out? Who was directing them? Who was there?¶

MR. : Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: And then, in the hospital, when he was there, I mean, I don’t know, do the fire department guys wear body cameras?¶

MR. : Mm-hmm.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: EMTs? I don’t know. You know, but in a - like I said - there was a handheld camera in the hospital, when they took him, there were four people there. Two EMTs and two other people, and someone would have a video camera of that. And why did they dress him in a hospital gown?¶

MR. : Okay.¶

MS. : The guy that had (Indiscernible *00:45:19) poster.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. I knew his name. Farrington (Phonetic Sp. *00:45:25). I believe it was William Farrington.¶

MR. : He was at the hospital, or he was at the prison?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: At the prison.¶

MS. : At MCC.¶

MR. : Okay.¶

MR. : When Mr. Epstein was being rolled out?¶

MS. : Yup.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He’s on the gurney, and he’s covered in a sheet. They have a neck brace on him, and they -. He’s intubated. They have a thing down his throat, and that squeezing one of those, the air balloons, to try to get air into his lungs. Yeah. Which you use on, like, drowning victims, and (Indiscernible *00:45:51).¶

So, I was, like, why, you know, why this charade? And also, from the time they got there, they took him down, there’s no pulse. Obviously. He’s not breathing. You know, the¶

EFTA00113472¶

body can only last a few minutes under that condition. So, what -? They got up there. He was found dead, you know, they do whatever they do in there, they cut him open, they try to defibrillate him. Right? Because that’s the thing on the other picture, the defibrillator angle. And there’s the electric cord in the room because he slept with a CPAP machine.¶

Which, I didn’t know he used one. But turns out he did. And he was in the room with his electric cord. You know, and, oh, in the photographs, let me see if I can find this photo here.¶

MR. □□: Why are you looking that up?¶

I know, you might have answered this. Did you have any communications with him when he was in prison?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No.¶

MR. □□: Did he email you, or call you —¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No.¶

MR. □□: — anything like that?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Nope.¶

MR. □□: What about any other family members?¶

MR. □□: 2004?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: 2004.¶

MR. □□: Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, they were older. It was right around when Jeff first got in trouble in 2006. He called me, and asked me if I’m at his house, which is, you know, like, after my mother died, I moved back, (Indiscernible *00:47:33), because most of our communications, it seems Jeff was rather (Indiscernible *00:47:36), health issues, and being close to the family. Like, he called me to his house, because he wanted to tell me himself that he was getting in trouble. You know, for (Indiscernible *00:47:47). And the first thing I said to him, I said, well, (Indiscernible *00:47:50) mom’s dead. It’s looking like they’re about to kill her. (Indiscernible *00:47:53) some issues. So.¶

MR. □□: How long did you take care -? So, you said that you had ghosted a large part of (Indiscernible *00:48:04) life. (Indiscernible *00:48:06). And how much do you (Indiscernible *00:48:11)?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: You can hold - whatever his¶

MR. : As said, did he contact anybody -?¶

MR. : Did he contact any of the family members?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No. And there’s no one in the family.¶

MR. : So, you don’t know anybody, aside from his attorneys, (Indiscernible *00:46:52) who spoke to (Indiscernible *00:46:53) on his night, or spoke to (Indiscernible *00:46:54)?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No. No.¶

MR. : He spoke with you?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I sent him a letter in prison. I have no idea if he ever got it. (Indiscernible *00:47:00).¶

MR. : In terms of siblings, you were the only sibling?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah.¶

MR. : The parents?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Deceased.¶

MR. : Deceased.¶

MR. : Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: My father died in ‘91. 30 years ago. And my mother died in 2004.¶

bail was.¶

MR. : And (Indiscernible *00:48:13)?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Well, his bail, his bail itself was 100, plus 100 million. Somewhere in that. I don’t know the exact number. No. But whatever it was, I paid them.¶

MR. : Yeah. Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I have his (Indiscernible *00:48:22).¶

MR. : (Indiscernible *00:48:23).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Mm-hmm.¶

MR. : (Indiscernible *00:48:26) the house in Florida?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: The house in Florida is a small part.¶

MS. : (Indiscernible *00:48:30).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Technically the first bail he called me and asked me if I would participate in his bail, because he’s explaining that it’s a better show if other people are willing to (Indiscernible *00:48:39).¶

MR. : Okay.¶

EFTA00113473¶

MR. EPSTEIN: So, I said, sure, put in my house in Florida. MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *00:48:45)? MR. EPSTEIN: That’s worth $200,000. That’s not (Indiscernible *00:48:48). And then, come the appeal. You know, (Indiscernible *00:48:54) days, but prior to his death. They called me and they explained that, you know, they’re going to this appeal, and he was pretty much, you know, at the house, which you can find was valued at (Indiscernible *00:49:01) house. I think he was in jail for (Indiscernible *00:49:05), you know, a couple, close to 100 nights. They asked me if I would guarantee his (Indiscernible *00:49:10). I said yes. So, I don’t remember the exact number, but he wasn’t worried about it.¶

Because like I said— Mr. EPSTEIN: No, no, no. I’m just — Mr. EPSTEIN: — I’m just going to show up. Mr. EPSTEIN: — for (Indiscernible *00:49:19), especially when we had heard that you guys are estranged, but if I can say my that reached out to you about that? Mr. EPSTEIN: Yes. Mr. EPSTEIN: Well, the one lawyer Darian Indyke, he works in prison (Indiscernible *00:50:30). He (Indiscernible *00:50:31). Mr. EPSTEIN: Okay. Mr. EPSTEIN: Actually, yeah, a long time ago. Like, 30 years ago. He worked in a law firm, and Jeffrey and I both used that law firm. I used it for law stuff. (Indiscernible *00:50:41). Always there. But I haven’t seen him in a very long time. Until this (Indiscernible *00:50:48). So, he might be personal. Yeah. Okay. In these pictures, he’s by the cell. You see this electric cord here is, like, in the room access. He would have to have the door, the door swung open, and the electric cord was there. That was I think his defibrillator or something. And the CPAP machine. But you could see there is an electric cord. In that picture of the electric cord. (Indiscernible *00:52:22). What is that? Yeah, and in the picture I’m looking for, it shows that electric cord, really. It’s plugged into the extension on the other side of guess would be that you actually weren’t, and you actually agreed to post the bail, and (Indiscernible *00:49:28) how much money was it? MR. EPSTEIN: Up to, it was somewhere in the range of 100 million. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. You got that type of money? MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *00:49:40). You’ll see. Mm-hmm. MR. EPSTEIN: But you mentioned another. There was one other person, I thought you said, that was also involved? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. That’s (Indiscernible *00:49:50). MR. EPSTEIN: Just the two of you? MR. EPSTEIN: As far as I know, yeah. That’s the only people I’ve ever known. Yeah. MS. I: I don’t know if that bail application was final. It might be (Indiscernible *00:49:58). MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. Give me (Indiscernible *00:50:10) for this. MR. And it was Jeffrey’s lawyers¶

that reached out to you about that? Mr. EPSTEIN: Yes. Mr. EPSTEIN: Well, the one lawyer Darian Indyke, he works in prison (Indiscernible *00:50:30). He (Indiscernible *00:50:31). Mr. EPSTEIN: Okay. Mr. EPSTEIN: Actually, yeah, a long time ago. Like, 30 years ago. He worked in a law firm, and Jeffrey and I both used that law firm. I used it for law stuff. (Indiscernible *00:50:41). Always there. But I haven’t seen him in a very long time. Until this (Indiscernible *00:50:48). So, he might be personal. Yeah. Okay. In these pictures, he’s by the cell. You see this electric cord here is, like, in the room access. He would have to have the door, the door swung open, and the electric cord was there. That was I think his defibrillator or something. And the CPAP machine. But you could see there is an electric cord. In that picture of the electric cord. (Indiscernible *00:52:22). What is that? Yeah, and in the picture I’m looking for, it shows that electric cord, really. It’s plugged into the extension on the other side of guess would be that you actually weren’t, and you actually agreed to post the bail, and (Indiscernible *00:49:28) how much money was it? MR. EPSTEIN: Up to, it was somewhere in the range of 100 million. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. You got that type of money? MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *00:49:40). You’ll see. Mm-hmm. MR. EPSTEIN: But you mentioned another. There was one other person, I thought you said, that was also involved? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. That’s (Indiscernible *00:49:50). MR. EPSTEIN: Just the two of you? MR. EPSTEIN: As far as I know, yeah. That’s the only people I’ve ever known. Yeah. MS. I: I don’t know if that bail application was final. It might be (Indiscernible *00:49:58). MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. Give me (Indiscernible *00:50:10) for this. MR. And it was Jeffrey’s lawyers¶

EFTA00113474¶

us to have (Indiscernible *00:54:10), along with the photographs, and perhaps the (Indiscernible *00:54:12).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I can make copies and send it to you.¶

MR. ****: Oh my, that would be great.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No problem.¶

MR. ****: (Indiscernible *00:54:18).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah.¶

MS. ****: (Indiscernible *00:54:19).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, give me your cards, and I’ll send you —¶

MR. ****: Okay.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: — so you guys can —.¶

MR. ****: Okay. Well, if there is anything (Indiscernible *00:54:26), if there’s something else that we’re missing,¶

(Indiscernible *00:54:32).¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah.¶

MR. ****: Just let us know.¶

MR. ****: When you first started¶

(Indiscernible *00:54:39), were you aware that Mr. Epstein went through his life, he¶

-. But, you know, I didn’t, and like I said, I assumed if that was his choice, then I respect that.¶

Because, look, if I was in his shoes, I have kids, you know, like I said, if I didn’t have kids, and I was potentially facing what I did, you know, we’re not religious people, you know, we were both raised atheists. So, you know, we don’t have that kind of fears or anything. Yeah, I might choose to take myself out. But I would certainly wait for the bail hearing to pass. That’s what (Indiscernible *00:56:18). And Jeffrey wasn’t a stupid man. So, you know, I’m sure he would wait for that, as well. Because it doesn’t make sense to kill himself two days before a bail hearing, where your bail is going to be the highest bail ever in the United States, with a guarantee.¶

MR. : I know you mentioned you didn’t communicate with him after his arrest, his last arrest in July, but before that, did he ever mention about possibly committing suicide? Was he ever depressed?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: No. Never. Never. Never. No.¶

(Indiscernible *00:54:43) with his life, you didn’t seem surprised. Were you surprised?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: I wasn’t surprised. I’m pretty level-headed. You know? So, I don’t.. So, these don’t surprise me. I’ve seen a lot of shit in my life. You know? I haven’t been in the military, but military people have told me I should have been in the military. Because I’m always the one with the cool head, you know, when all shit breaks loose. So, I wasn’t surprised. It was a little bit shocking that he was dead. But like I said, I assumed, okay, you heard on CNN that he committed suicide. So, you originally you don’t have reason to question.¶

You just assume that that’s the case. I mean, that and the reason that he committed suicide. And I - again - knowing, you know, that he was potentially facing the long term prison sentence, he didn’t have kids to worry about. He didn’t have to worry about me. Our parents are dead. There’s no other relative that he was close to. In that way. So, I assumed, okay. That’s what he did. You know? But as I finished my breakfast, you know, it’s¶

MR. : Did he ever show any tendencies towards wanting to take his life?¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Never. Never. No. That wasn’t him. He had no reason to. He had, like, the -. He had a life that you and me, go anywhere we want. He had more money than God. He did what he wanted. You know, if he wanted to do it with me, if he had yes people surrounding him, who catered his every whim.¶

MR. : Right.¶

MR. EPSTEIN: Flying around on private jets. Beautiful homes all over the place. Lots of women. You know? He wasn’t -. Side story. My mother was once asked me, why doesn’t he want to settle down? And I said to her, I said, he hasn’t settled down because if he found a quality woman to settle down with, instead of these bimbos that he’s hanging out with, she would eventually say, you know, why don’t we do this instead of that. That was what he wanted. I said, and that’s why she gets shown the door. Because he didn’t want to do anything that he didn’t want to do. That was -. And he was able to have his life that way. There was no reason for him to kill¶

EFTA00113475¶

1. himself or think about killing himself.

2. MR. EPSTEIN: Now —

3. MR. EPSTEIN: He was healthy. He wasn’t facing any medical issues, or whatever. You know, anything drastic (Indiscernible *00:57:44).

4. MR. EPSTEIN: — being his brother, and knowing him the way you do, you do think that the bail, if he was actually going to be released, would he have any fear of being out in public, because people then now perceiving him a certain way?

5. MR. EPSTEIN: Well, he had that whole thing from 2006. He’s been shunned by you, know, society since that first thing in 2006.

6. You know, like, when he’s in business, he used to you, know, handle the Les Wexner’s money (Indiscernible *00:58:12). That’s how he made a lot of his money. You know what I’m saying, with the (Indiscernible *00:58:15).

7. So, Wexlon (Phonetic Sp. *00:58:18) distanced himself from that. Because you know, people would be seeing the old Jeffrey Epstein, because of his initial thing in 2006. In that period of time. So, yeah. So, he

8. victims. You know, they were enjoying the high life.

9. Flying around in private jets. Being in these amazing homes. I mean, his house in New York City is pretty amazing, you know? And then, and when she started turning the tide on these poor victims, the journalist shut it down. Because at the time, nobody wants to hear anything positive about Jeff. Nobody wants to hear anything negative about his victims. You know? You know, Jeff was just looking for a good time, you know?

10. MR. : Do you know if he was aware that you’ll put it up, and agree to be the guarantee, guarantor?

11. MR. EPSTEIN: Uh.

12. MR. : For the bail.

13. MR. EPSTEIN: I think attorneys told him that. Yeah.

14. MR. : Same thing with

15. You think the attorneys screwed (Indiscernible *01:00:03)?

16. MR. EPSTEIN: I would imagine so. Yeah.

17. MR. : Okay.

18. MS. : You can check the MCC

1 already went through that shunning, you know, and, you know, it is what it is. He was trying to rehabilitate his reputation, at the time. 3. That’s why Bannon was helping him. 4. Because Bannon was going to come out with another story. And there’s another, there’s people from Australia - and you’ll see soon in the papers - that they’re coming out with a whole story about this case, with Ghislaine Maxwell, and the brother, and these victims, who they’re claiming, we’re not really victims. 4. You know? You know, that these are just, as my mother used to say, good time Charlies. 5. Girls looking for a good time. You know, if it was so victim-ish, you know, then how come all these girls brought their friends to participate in these parties? There was an interview on TV, last year. It was set in Britain. Some British woman who (Indiscernible *00:59:11) and my brother, who had been to some of the dinner parties, at my brother’s house. 6. And so, you know, and she started saying, there were two journalists, interviewing her. She started saying how these girls were not¶

1 records that he was meeting with his attorneys all day, and (Indiscernible *01:00:13) the entire day. Every day. 2. MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 3. MS. : Because all of the rest of us had to wait, because you couldn’t see anybody else from the SHU. 4. MR. EPSTEIN: Hmm. 5. MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *01:00:25). 6. Also, when a - a couple - the weeks before he died, he had that incident with Tartaglione. 7. His cellmate at the time. 8. MR. : Mm-hmm. 9. MR. EPSTEIN: There’s conflicting stories, about it, you know, David Shone said that - and publicly - that Tartaglione attacked him, one afternoon, and they’re trying to say that was, like, the suicide attempt. So, who knows what took place. But if Tartaglione attacked him. And then, Tartaglione was still on the tier. (Indiscernible *01:00:55). 9. MR. : Now, do you know if Jeffrey spoke at all with anyone -. If his attorneys know anything about Epstein being attacked by Tartaglione?¶

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CERTIFICATE¶

I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of:¶

Interview of MARK EPSTEIN¶

Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber¶

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