1¶
DIGITALLY RECORDED¶
SWORN STATEMENT¶
OF¶
OIG CASE #:¶
2019-010614¶
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE¶
OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL¶
JULY 14, 2021¶
RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone:¶
EFTA00060373¶
2¶
APPEARANCES:¶
OTHER APPEARANCES:¶
NONE¶
EFTA00060374¶
3¶
1: The recorder is on. My name is and I’m a Senior Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office and these are my credentials.¶
2: Thank you, sir.¶
3: This interview with the Federal Bureau of Prisons employee is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today’s date is July 14, 2021 and the time is 1:14 p.m.¶
4: Yes.¶
5: This interview is being conducted at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York, New York, also known as the MCC. Also present is DOJ OIG Special Agent.¶
6: This interview will be recorded by me, SSA.¶
7: Could everyone please identify themselves for the record and spell your last name. To start, again, I am DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent.¶
8: This is DOJ OIG Special Agent.¶
EFTA00060375¶
4¶
: Thank you, sir. This is an official DOJ OIG investigation into the death of inmate Jeffery Epstein and the surrounding circumstances and you’re being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG?¶
Yes, thank you. All right, so we got that form, it’s the DOJ OIG form III-226/2. It says, “The United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978,¶
EFTA00060376¶
5¶
as amended. This investigation pertains to security failure and job performance failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceeding or both.” And there’s a waiver section. It says, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” And as mentioned, this is something that we provide everybody for voluntary interviews, so you’re being asked, you know, we just provide these warnings to everyone just knowing it’s voluntary, you can stop at any time, you don’t have to answer our questions. Do you¶
Yes, sir, I understand.¶
All right. So, if you want to review it yourself, please feel free,¶
EFTA00060377¶
6¶
EFTA00060378¶
7¶
EFTA00060379¶
8¶
EFTA00060380¶
9¶
EFTA00060381¶
10¶
EFTA00060382¶
11¶
EFTA00060383¶
12¶
EFTA00060384¶
13¶
going to - we’re going to keep these documents in front of you because as we go through the interview, I’ll probably ask you about different people and you can just refer to it. When I do provide you - do you have an extra pen? When I do provide you with documents, do you mind just so that for interview purposes, we - it’s not to certify anything is accurate, it’s simply to say this is the document that I showed you. So can you just like initial and date on the top of each document that I show you, and it doesn’t mean, go through the packet, it’s just the top page. So, this one for instance, is the daily assignment roster for Saturday, August 10, 2019 and this one is the daily assignment roster for Friday, August 9, 2019. And again, it’s simply to - you don’t¶
EFTA00060385¶
14¶
EFTA00060386¶
15¶
EFTA00060387¶
16¶
EFTA00060388¶
17¶
EFTA00060389¶
18¶
EFTA00060390¶
19¶
EFTA00060391¶
20¶
EFTA00060392¶
21¶
EFTA00060393¶
22¶
EFTA00060394¶
23¶
EFTA00060395¶
24¶
: I’m pretty sure I did. I’m pretty sure I did. And all my overtime was always in the SHU.¶
: Okay. And do you believe then that everyone who worked in the SHU would have known that inmate Epstein was required to have a cell mate?¶
: Yes.¶
: All right. And what makes you believe that?¶
: It’s part of pretty much the SHU training.¶
: Okay. When you say, “SHU training,” what training are you referring to and what was taught?¶
: Special Housing Unit training is, once again, the policy of what to do in Special Housing Unit, how to conduct rounds, how to deal with an inmate that is coming off of suicide watch and part of our SHU training is the psychologists speaking to us and breaking down and what to do when an inmate comes off suicide watch, what signs to look for and pretty much making sure you’re doing the right thing when somebody comes up from suicide¶
EFTA00060396¶
25¶
EFTA00060397¶
26¶
EFTA00060398¶
27¶
EFTA00060399¶
28¶
EFTA00060400¶
29¶
EFTA00060401¶
30¶
EFTA00060402¶
31¶
EFTA00060403¶
32¶
EFTA00060404¶
33¶
EFTA00060405¶
34¶
EFTA00060406¶
35¶
EFTA00060407¶
36¶
EFTA00060408¶
37¶
EFTA00060409¶
38¶
EFTA00060410¶
39¶
EFTA00060411¶
40¶
EFTA00060412¶
41¶
EFTA00060413¶
42¶
EFTA00060414¶
43¶
EFTA00060415¶
44¶
: There’s been a lot of times that we take them downstairs, two, three hours later, something happened, “You know what? Go right back upstairs, you leave tomorrow or the next day.”¶
: Okay. And does R&D stand for Receiving and Discharging?¶
: Yes.¶
: Okay. What floor is that on?¶
: That’s on the 3rd floor.¶
: Okay. Do you get a - let me go through this. So, I got a Lieutenant log and a daily log. So let me find those. So here’s the - this top report, the daily activity report is from August 10, 2019 and behind it, it has the Lieutenant’s log from Friday, August 9, 2019. So that’s what I’m going to refer you to and I’m going to refer you specifically to where it says, “8:00 a.m.,” on down. It says, “According to the Lieutenant’s log and the daily log,” so this is the daily log. I think he’s on the third page. It says, “Reyes was pre-removed from the SHU at 8:38 a.m.” What does that mean?¶
EFTA00060416¶
45¶
EFTA00060417¶
46¶
EFTA00060418¶
47¶
EFTA00060419¶
48¶
EFTA00060420¶
49¶
EFTA00060421¶
50¶
EFTA00060422¶
51¶
EFTA00060423¶
52¶
EFTA00060424¶
53¶
EFTA00060425¶
54¶
EFTA00060426¶
55¶
EFTA00060427¶
56¶
that an inmate is not coming back? Once they leave here. So they all go downstairs with all their belongings. No, no, no. So would it be when the other court people, inmates return or would it be prior to that? So, yes, you said, he’s likely not coming back at approximately 8:38 when you bring him down. He leaves, it’s kind of assumed that he’s not coming back. We’re trying to figure out, when is it known he’s definitely not coming back. Is that when the other inmates that went to court are returned to the MCC or they return at different times or how does that work? Well, the inmates, they don’t all return together. They return different times. Okay. But, that’s actually a good question. I want to find that out too. I don’t know if they’re going to - they just locked it. I think you’re locking us in.¶
EFTA00060428¶
57¶
EFTA00060429¶
58¶
EFTA00060430¶
59¶
EFTA00060431¶
60¶
EFTA00060432¶
61¶
EFTA00060433¶
62¶
No.¶
So that’s just like basically good, I guess, logistics and good —¶
Yes.¶
— record keeping. Were you ever instructed on what action should be taken if Reyes, who was assigned to Epstein as a cellmate, was removed from the institution?¶
If anybody, not only Epstein, loses a bunkie, and he was already on suicide watch, then that’s pretty much our training. If he returned from suicide watch, he needs a bunkie. If he has a bunkie and the bunkie leaves, we get him another one.¶
Okay. Okay, so in this case then, it was Reyes was likely to have been removed from the institution. What actions should have been taken to replace Reyes and when should have they been taken?¶
Well, as soon as it was verified or confirmed that he left the building, and Epstein was coming up from his attorney visit, which was probably around 8:00 because that’s the last, like the last call on attorney conference, last legal visit has to be¶
EFTA00060434¶
63¶
out of the legal department by 8 o’clock. So, as soon as we find out that - if Reyes wasn’t there for the 4 o’clock count, it should have been, “Okay, let’s find Epstein another bunkie so by the time he comes upstairs, he has one already.”¶
: Okay. Did you have any communica- let me just go in order so I don’t get - so, let me just make sure I understand. So at 4:00 p.m., they should have been making some notifications or at least requesting information on Reyes’s location, correct?¶
EFTA00060435¶
64¶
: Okay. And who was responsible for assigning Epstein with a new cell mate?¶
So, anyone in SHU could do it. Just got to make sure he doesn’t have any separations from another inmate. But, Epstein, when he came to the building was a big deal to everybody, so everybody wants to be involved.¶
So I think they should just notify whoever it was, the Lieutenant, and let the Lieutenant ask around or speak to Psychology who you recommend to be his bunkie.¶
: Okay. And so, being that Epstein was a big deal and people wanted to be involved, when should that notification had been made?¶
EFTA00060436¶
65¶
EFTA00060437¶
66¶
EFTA00060438¶
67¶
EFTA00060439¶
68¶
EFTA00060440¶
69¶
EFTA00060441¶
70¶
EFTA00060442¶
71¶
EFTA00060443¶
72¶
EFTA00060444¶
73¶
EFTA00060445¶
74¶
EFTA00060446¶
75¶
EFTA00060447¶
76¶
EFTA00060448¶
77¶
EFTA00060449¶
78¶
EFTA00060450¶
79¶
EFTA00060451¶
80¶
EFTA00060452¶
81¶
EFTA00060453¶
82¶
EFTA00060454¶
83¶
EFTA00060455¶
84¶
EFTA00060456¶
85¶
EFTA00060457¶
86¶
EFTA00060458¶
87¶
No. You have to - by policy, do a round throughout the whole building and make sure you log it in. And in SHU, we have the round sheets which that’s part of your SHU round. You can’t just walk into SHU, do a 360 and walk right back out. You have to sign the round sheets.¶
And what’s your opinion if Lieutenants are telling us, “No, no, no, no, no, we don’t actually have to walk the tiers, we can just check with the COs and go to the next unit.” What’s your opinion of that?¶
I’d say that’s crap.¶
Do you believe those¶
EFTA00060459¶
88¶
EFTA00060460¶
89¶
EFTA00060461¶
90¶
EFTA00060462¶
91¶
EFTA00060463¶
92¶
EFTA00060464¶
93¶
EFTA00060465¶
94¶
T and so Tova Noel? Yes. But you believe is the one that should have certified the 2:00 to 4:00? Yeah. Do you believe should have also while he was on duty, been the one that had a signature from 4:00 p.m. on? He could have. He could have. It’s not – you don’t have to be the person (Indiscernible *01:07:18). Anybody could sign the rounds but I just did it because I was in and out the range, so I always signed them. But anybody could have signed the rounds as long as they did them. So what would your opinion be if I tell you that someone like a Tova Noel says that they actually fill this in at the very start of their shift prior to ever conducting any rounds just to make sure that it’s filled out correctly. What would you say to that? They fucked up because they still not done it. Sorry.¶
EFTA00060466¶
95¶
EFTA00060467¶
96¶
EFTA00060468¶
97¶
EFTA00060469¶
98¶
EFTA00060470¶
99¶
EFTA00060471¶
100¶
EFTA00060472¶
101¶
EFTA00060473¶
102¶
EFTA00060474¶
103¶
EFTA00060475¶
104¶
EFTA00060476¶
105¶
EFTA00060477¶
106¶
midnight of August 10th. I’m just going to have you help - this is where, remember, I said I was going to help you, you know, put this puzzle together. I believe we already know the answers but I don’t want to give you the answers in fear that I’m wrong. So this is from the 5:00 a.m. count to the midnight count and I want to show you the Lieutenant’s log which, where is that? So here’s the Lieutenant’s log. And we didn’t print out that paper that I made, did I?¶
EFTA00060478¶
107¶
EFTA00060479¶
108¶
EFTA00060480¶
109¶
EFTA00060481¶
110¶
EFTA00060482¶
111¶
EFTA00060483¶
112¶
EFTA00060484¶
113¶
EFTA00060485¶
114¶
EFTA00060486¶
115¶
EFTA00060487¶
116¶
EFTA00060488¶
117¶
EFTA00060489¶
118¶
EFTA00060490¶
119¶
EFTA00060491¶
120¶
EFTA00060492¶
121¶
during the day or right before I get relieved at 2 o’clock, I’m going to print out that PP-38, it’s going to show me every inmate movement in the building and whatever specific date I wanted. So if I’m doing today, three from SHU just saying, “Left to another institution, to Brooklyn.” On that PP-38, it would say, “Jones, Smith, Roberts moved to Brooklyn.” So now, I go that, I have 757, I just lost three. Now I’m going down to 754. And just like it is here, inmate 123 left to Brooklyn so now my numbers go down. Again, we’re all human, sometimes there’s a lot of movement, we might miss one or two. So this right here -.¶
: — I showed you at 5:00 a.m., then I can show you all the way through after Epstein, you know, died, where I’m assuming they definitely did the counts because there’s a - here’s one that was done at 11:00 a.m., I guess that was the 10:00 a.m. count on Saturday —¶
EFTA00060493¶
122¶
EFTA00060494¶
123¶
EFTA00060495¶
124¶
EFTA00060496¶
125¶
EFTA00060497¶
126¶
EFTA00060498¶
127¶
EFTA00060499¶
128¶
Correct. If you’re doing a stand up count which every count is a stand up count, you stand at the door, acknowledge your presence, stand up count, okay, is standing up, Smith is standing up, that’s two. I go all the way around, I do that to every single cell, the eight cells. By the time I get to the end, I counted 15, I write 15. Then the next person behind me has to do the same exact thing. Most likely, they start from this way, the opposite way and not - and actually count and you confirm the number, “I got 15, how many you got?” “I got 14.” “Oh, okay, now we got to count again.” Everybody stand up. Now we have the same count, write down 15, we go down to next tier. That’s how a count should be conducted.¶
EFTA00060500¶
129¶
EFTA00060501¶
130¶
EFTA00060502¶
131¶
EFTA00060503¶
132¶
EFTA00060504¶
133¶
EFTA00060505¶
134¶
EFTA00060506¶
135¶
EFTA00060507¶
136¶
EFTA00060508¶
137¶
EFTA00060509¶
138¶
EFTA00060510¶
139¶
EFTA00060511¶
140¶
EFTA00060512¶
141¶
EFTA00060513¶
142¶
EFTA00060514¶
143¶
EFTA00060515¶
144¶
EFTA00060516¶
145¶
EFTA00060517¶
146¶
And do you follow what I’m saying though? I’m not saying that you would have had a conversation with them on the 9th. I’m saying —¶
Like in general?¶
— of the people that worked on the 9th. So these people are the ones like Noel, , , you know, these are the people that actually worked on the 9th. Ever leading up to the 9th, so any day leading up to the 9th, would have you had a conversation with them to say, “Make sure you’re doing your rounds and counts correctly.”¶
Yep. I’m sure I’ve told them - because everybody wants to work SHU.¶
SHU is a pain in the butt, but, if you want to work SHU, you got to do your rounds and do your stuff how you’re supposed to do it.¶
All right. Can you remember any specific conversations or when those conversations would have taken place?¶
Probably walking around, talking to them, seeing or anybody. Thomas has been working for the Bureau for a very long time, even before I did,¶
EFTA00060518¶
147¶
EFTA00060519¶
148¶
EFTA00060520¶
149¶
EFTA00060521¶
150¶
EFTA00060522¶
151¶
EFTA00060523¶
152¶
EFTA00060524¶
153¶
EFTA00060525¶
154¶
that you’ll be able to answer this, but are the times listed on the Lieutenant’s log that you just reviewed accurate?¶
I don’t know.¶
Is it all based upon whoever is entering it?¶
Yes.¶
Okay. Is there any kind of a verifying process? Like does anybody oversight over that to kind of audit the documents?¶
The only way you could verify it and the only thing would be the moves. So if inmate movement in the institution, you could verify it because you go to the PP-38.¶
And who creates that document, the 38?¶
The 38? You would call Control, “Inmate Joe Smith left today.” Or, “Inmate Joe Smith was in 11 South, he was moved.” “Okay.” I could call downstairs at 10:30, that’s the time he moved, but it could be off within a couple of - it could be off a few minutes —¶
EFTA00060526¶
155¶
EFTA00060527¶
156¶
EFTA00060528¶
157¶
EFTA00060529¶
158¶
Well, depending on the time. So like when let’s say it was between 8 o’clock in the morning and 2 o’clock in the afternoon, inmates are going in and out, in and out, even SHU, like medical, dental, court, attorney visits. So now you have six, seven inmates going in and out, not at all times you’re looking, “Oh, is an inmate coming out,” they pop - you know, you call for the door. You probably could just open the door right there, but then have to run to the window, give somebody a set of keys.¶
: Okay. And then just to clarify on that same question. If that PP-38 will show the key in time of when the¶
EFTA00060530¶
159¶
EFTA00060531¶
160¶
would not leave exactly at midnight. You would leave a couple of minutes after unless you were doing a double doing dry cell.¶
No, because who knows who was in R&D that day, who knows if they’re still working here.¶
But what about, like for instance, we have the count slips at least for 10:00 p.m. Actually, where there was no count slip for him at 4:00 p.m. but we have the count slips for R&D and RA at 10:00 p.m. and midnight. Do you believe that even they would be able to recall if it was that they¶
EFTA00060532¶
161¶
EFTA00060533¶
162¶
EFTA00060534¶
163¶
EFTA00060535¶
164¶
EFTA00060536¶
165¶
EFTA00060537¶
166¶
EFTA00060538¶
167¶
have done that cell search? Well, took them out to the shower. Okay. And is that like everybody? Does everybody - how does that work? Who -. So, technically the OIC is not supposed to - he has the big set which is the keys to the - on the ranges and the door and everybody else goes in and out the tiers. Okay. But we were all involved. We all moved inmates from this tier to another tier. Okay, “You two on that side, okay, bring them out,” search their cell. If I’m on this side, I’m going to bring them out, do the cell search. Okay. And this isn’t - I’m not trying to be an I gotcha, at all at any moment, I’m just trying to get a greater understanding. So if all of the cells were searched, why would only one search be entered for that day? I’m busy during the day. And was that like, does¶
EFTA00060539¶
168¶
EFTA00060540¶
169¶
EFTA00060541¶
170¶
EFTA00060542¶
171¶
EFTA00060543¶
172¶
EFTA00060544¶
173¶
EFTA00060545¶
174¶
EFTA00060546¶
175¶
EFTA00060547¶
176¶
EFTA00060548¶
177¶
When we should go - when we go in there when we bring them out to the shower, we should go in there and shake it down, that’s when we go in there and take anything extra that they’re not supposed to have.¶
EFTA00060549¶
178¶
EFTA00060550¶
179¶
EFTA00060551¶
180¶
EFTA00060552¶
181¶
EFTA00060553¶
182¶
EFTA00060554¶
183¶
EFTA00060555¶
184¶
1 mattresses around because we’re going to put two inmates over there. They only have one, then we’ll take it.¶
: Okay. Is that a big problem if there are extra mattresses then?¶
: You’re not supposed to, but depending who is in charge that’s there —¶
: Yeah.¶
: — and at night time, if you don’t want to deal with it - well, not me or - but if some people don’t want to deal with it, like, “All right, here’s another mattress.”¶
: So what’s the purpose of making sure that inmates only have one mattress as well as the correct amount of linens and blankets?¶
: Well, the linen because just so we can have for everybody. The mattress, the same thing, you only have one mattress, that’s all you’re allowed.¶
: Are there any kind of security issues that go along with it?¶
: Unless it’s a troubled inmate, they’ll put the mattress to barricade the door.¶
EFTA00060556¶
185¶
EFTA00060557¶
186¶
EFTA00060558¶
187¶
EFTA00060559¶
188¶
EFTA00060560¶
189¶
And so he was in cell 220 as we just discussed and in the system he’s logged in at 206L. Do you know anything about that?¶
I actually found that out the week after.¶
(Indiscernible *02:20:49)¶
so, if you found out, do you know why that is, like what happened? Because obviously the conspiracy theorists are going to be all over that if that gets out, that he was in the wrong cell. So, do you know if it would have been one of those things that - was he ever moved or was he just moved in the system or vice versa?¶
Do you know how that —¶
I think -.¶
— discrepancy happened?¶
I think what happened was when he was moved up from suicide watch, he was placed in, let’s say, 206. And then, after he went to attorney conference, when they got him with his bunkie - I mean, once, let’s say, he went - he did go to attorney conference, “Okay, he’s coming back, we’re going to put him with this bunkie,” we’re just going to move him and¶
EFTA00060561¶
190¶
EFTA00060562¶
191¶
EFTA00060563¶
192¶
EFTA00060564¶
193¶
EFTA00060565¶
194¶
EFTA00060566¶
195¶
EFTA00060567¶
196¶
EFTA00060568¶
197¶
EFTA00060569¶
198¶
EFTA00060570¶
199¶
EFTA00060571¶
200¶
EFTA00060572¶
201¶
EFTA00060573¶
202¶
EFTA00060574¶
203¶
EFTA00060575¶
204¶
EFTA00060576¶
205¶
we’re going to talk about - do you mind just initialing. Now would the Lieutenant have any oversight over this as well?¶
- If he was there, yes.
- Is that something he suppo- he’s, you know, I think it was, we were told that the Lieutenant comes in and audits the books and things like that. Is this something that he would have been auditing?
- I’m not sure if that’s because I haven’t worked like as a SHU
- Lieutenant, but he does have to confirm the rounds. Only way he would order that is probably before the SHU meeting, which the SHU meetings we usually had on Thursdays.
- Okay. Anything more you want to ask on that?
- I don’t know if you want him to sign the SHU.
- We’re still going to look at that. So, this has been a great confusion too that we’re hoping you can help us. What cameras are actually located in the SHU outside of 10 South and G Tier?
- At this point in time.
EFTA00060577¶
206¶
EFTA00060578¶
207¶
EFTA00060579¶
208¶
EFTA00060580¶
209¶
EFTA00060581¶
210¶
EFTA00060582¶
211¶
EFTA00060583¶
212¶
EFTA00060584¶
213¶
EFTA00060585¶
214¶
EFTA00060586¶
215¶
-
camera doesn’t surprise me, it’s just another
-
thing that didn’t work for the moment.
thing that didn’t work for the moment.¶
So this is where like, it’s just like, what are your - what is your opinion on the fact that we got no cameras working on at least, you know, definitely on Epstein’s tier, he’s in the wrong cell, you know, we could always - you know, the counts are basically, you know, potentially falsified, the counts weren’t done. Is there anything that you’re seeing here that you’re like,¶
“Somebody is covering up for somebody,” or,¶
“Somebody is like manipulating things or deleting cameras or taking anything down?” Is there a reason for you to believe any of that?¶
Mm, not really. I said, going on seven years now, a lot of stuff has gone wrong in this building and I highly doubt that stuff was on purpose. My -.¶
What about even to just cover up —¶
My belief -¶
— from what they were doing administratively? Is there anybody that would have been able to, like, knock cameras¶
EFTA00060587¶
216¶
EFTA00060588¶
217¶
EFTA00060589¶
218¶
EFTA00060590¶
219¶
EFTA00060591¶
220¶
There’s no jack close to the shower. Usually for a phone call, we plug in the phone to the jack and give them the phone through the slot. They make their phone call, 15 minutes are up, you take the phone back.¶
: So Epstein placed a telephone call from the shower, they plugged in the thing, gave Epstein the telephone and then closed the shower doors I guess and allowed him to speak in there. Has that ever happened before?¶
The only place that I think that would reach would be G Tier. Because they’re inside the tiers, the jacks weren’t working.¶
And am I saying that¶
EFTA00060592¶
221¶
EFTA00060593¶
222¶
EFTA00060594¶
223¶
EFTA00060595¶
224¶
EFTA00060596¶
225¶
EFTA00060597¶
226¶
EFTA00060598¶
227¶
EFTA00060599¶
228¶
EFTA00060600¶
229¶
EFTA00060601¶
230¶
EFTA00060602¶
231¶
EFTA00060603¶
232¶
EFTA00060604¶
233¶
EFTA00060605¶
234¶
EFTA00060606¶
235¶
EFTA00060607¶
236¶
EFTA00060608¶
237¶
EFTA00060609¶
238¶
EFTA00060610¶
239¶
EFTA00060611¶
240¶
Right. And with all that we talked about and like, you know, again, speaking about the cameras, the, you know, logs, the count, shifts, you know, all this kind of stuff, do you believe there’s any suspicious activity at play with regards to Epstein’s death?¶
I think, maybe when he came to maybe a round or a count sheet, yes, could have been stuff messed up, but any foul play with staff, I don’t think so.¶
: I don’t think so. I think this building is always under the radar with everything so instead of attracting attention, “Let’s get him out of -” because if not, his lawyer is going to eat MCC alive, that’s what a lot of, I feel. This building is worried about¶
EFTA00060612¶
241¶
EFTA00060613¶
242¶
EFTA00060614¶
243¶
EFTA00060615¶
244¶
EFTA00060616¶
245¶
EFTA00060617¶
246¶
- they end up coming back. Or they say they’re going to court, they’ll spend two, three hours in R&D and come back. So it’s not always because it says WAB on the paper, a hundred percent guarantee that they’re not going to come back. Whether they take all their stuff or not.
EFTA00060618¶
247¶
EFTA00060619¶
248¶
EFTA00060620¶
249¶
EFTA00060621¶
250¶
Lieutenant first, then, “Okay, I did my part, that’s pretty much - I did my part, I told the Lieutenant,” that’s, the rest is on - it’s on them because I did my part in notifying¶
EFTA00060622¶
251¶
Depending who is working. Sometimes they’ll tell both of them, sometimes they’ll call SHU, sometimes they’ll just call the Lieutenant, the Lieutenant calls SHU and says, “Hey, this guy is not coming back.” Or if they call SHU, then SHU would fix it on the computer or SHU would call Control, say, “Can you take off the count?”¶
And would the person that got contacted in R&D, you said everybody knew, would the person in R&D know that was¶
EFTA00060623¶
252¶
EFTA00060624¶
253¶
EFTA00060625¶
254¶
EFTA00060626¶
255¶
EFTA00060627¶
256¶
EFTA00060628¶
257¶
EFTA00060629¶
258¶
EFTA00060630¶
259¶
EFTA00060631¶
260¶
EFTA00060632¶
261¶
EFTA00060633¶
262¶
EFTA00060634¶
263¶
EFTA00060635¶
264¶
EFTA00060636¶
265¶
know who at - let me see that August 9th one - who in Control - would Control always be in the loop with that?¶
Not really because there’s times that R&D would call SHU and if there’s somebody in SHU that has enough knowledge to just key him back in, they’ll key them back in, or R&D would key them back in. So now, you don’t need to speak to R&D, I mean, you don’t need to speak to Control because the inmate is walking back up to SHU and R&D already keyed him back into the building.¶
All right. And then, what is the - what about like when Noel and Thomas are working on their morning shift, should they have recognized that Reyes wasn’t there?¶
But I just mean the start of a new shift now. Now midnight starts a new shift, we’re now on morning watch. Should they have recognized, “Hey, Epstein is by himself.”¶
Yes.¶
EFTA00060637¶
266¶
EFTA00060638¶
267¶
EFTA00060639¶
268¶
EFTA00060640¶
269¶
EFTA00060641¶
270¶
EFTA00060642¶
271¶
EFTA00060643¶
272¶
EFTA00060644¶
273¶
EFTA00060645¶
274¶
EFTA00060646¶
275¶
EFTA00060647¶
276¶
EFTA00060648¶
277¶
CERTIFICATE¶
I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of:¶
EFTA00060649¶
EFTA00060650¶
EFTA00060651¶
EFTA00060652¶
EFTA00060653¶
EFTA00060654¶
EFTA00060655¶
EFTA00060656¶
EFTA00060657¶
EFTA00060658¶
EFTA00060659¶
EFTA00060660¶
EFTA00060661¶
EFTA00060662¶