Sworn statement of a former Epstein house manager, Palm Beach, Nov. 2005

THE STATE OF FLORIDA, COUNTY OF PALM BEACH.
IN RE:
PALM BEACH INVESTIGATION.
SWORN STATEMENT OF
Monday, November 21, 2005
12:25 p.m. - 1:05 p.m.
401 N. Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
ORIGINAL Reported By:
Susan Shelling, RPR
Notary Public, State of Florida
Consor 6 Associates Reporting and Transcription
Phone - 561.835.9738
4400•ISSINI, ••••••Ga•4.4 •••••

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	APPEARANCES:
2	On behalf of the State:
3	DALIAH H. WEISS, Esquire ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY
4	401 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
5	561.355.7100
6	On behalf of the Witness: DONNIE MURRELL, Esquire
7	L.D. MURRELL, P.A. 400 Executive Center Drive
	Suite 201 West Palm Beach, Florida 33409
8	561.686.2700
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10	ALSO PRESENT:
11	DETECTIVE Palm Beach Police Department
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Sworn statement taken before Susan 1
Shelling, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 2
Public in and for the state of Florida at Large, in the 3
above cause. 4
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Thereupon, 6
7
having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was examined 8
and stated as follows: 9
I just want to repeat that MR. MURRELL: 10
we’re here under the State investigative subpoena 11
although it was that was served.on Mr. 12
dated for, I believe, Wednesday or something. 13
This is Monday the 21st, and we are here by 14
agreement. 15
EXAMINATION 16
BY DET. 17
I’m Detective with Mr. 18 Q.
the Palm Beach P.D. As I explained to you on the 19
telephone, I am conducting an investigation on a former 20
empinyar of ynors 21
I just spoke with your wife and she told me 22
you guys worked for Mr. Epstein for eight years? 23
Yes, she did work for eight years. I A. 24
I was there before my wife came. worked longer. 25
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1		O.	Before your wife came.
2		A.	I started full-time with him on January 1,
3			1991, and we both left December 31, 2002. So I worked
4			eleven years exactly. Prior to that, prior to working
			full-time for him, I worked part-time for him, on-and-off
6	basis.
7		Q.	What were your responsibilities?
8		A.	In the full-time basis, I started as a
9			houseman, and I became a major domo and butler and
10			everything else, driver, and did everything. We both did
11			all the chores in the house, but I was in charge of the
12			house. I was above my wife and above the cleaning crew,
13			the gardners, pool people. So I was house manager, major
14	domo.
15		Q.	You would have been the go-to guy for the
16	house?
17		A.	Yes. And the one who would get the blame.
18		Q.	We are talking about Jeffrey Epstein?
19		A.	Of course.
20		Q.	Do you remember the address of the house?
21		A	SSA Ti Arian
22		Q.	Was it in the beginning of the street —
23		A.	At the end of the street, on the left-hand
24	side.
25		Q.	We’re talking about the same house.

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1 2 3 4 A. Q. A. O. Yeah. Your wife said the same 558? 358? 558? It was 358. Page 6 number you did. 5 A. We left three years a go. 6 Q. And I understand it’s been some time since 7 then. So the questions I’m going t o ask you basically 8 is! During your time, did you deal directly with 9 Mr. Epstein? 1C A. Yes. And her and her — girlfriend, 11 manager. She was the manager of al 1 the households, 12 because he has homes all over the world. 13 Q. Right. 14 A. So we have — she was my boss, and I deal 15 directly with her. 16 Q. Who was — 17 A. Elaine Maxwell. 18 Q. Ms. Maxwell, that’s h is girlfriend, 19 correct? 20 A. Um-hum. 21 Q nuring the. oloynn yo.t; rs ha wrollr, rnme. 22 down, she would inform you that they were coming down? 23 A. Right. 24 Q. Make arrangements to have the house ready? 25 A. Right.¶

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1	During the time that he was here, you Q.
2	prepared the house, did all the chores.
3	Did you do any of the cleaning?
4	Sometimes. Many times. I did — last two A.
5	or three years the work was so much that we have to
6	hire — we hire a clean-up crew that they came twice a
7	week or once a week, then it was twice a week. Depends
8	upon his schedule, because he did not allow anybody at
9	the house except us when he was in town. So when he was
10	in town, it was just us doing the cleaning and the
11	cooking, the driving, shopping, everything else.
12	Did you stay on property in the guest O.
13	house?
14	I We had an apartment right A. Yes and no.
15	across the bridge. We had an apartment in
16	and we had an apartment at the house.
17	Why would you stay at the house, then? Q.
18	We stay at the house mostly when he was A. I
19	there. When he was not in town, we went home. We went
20	to our apartment. When he was there, it was — the job
71	inet tnn mulch fn ,In hnma Q n,n1ncle, 10 n’n1nnle and wa*
22	come back 5 o’clock in the morning. We would just stay
23	and sleep and get up and work.
24	When he was in town, did he receive a lot Q.
25	of guests at the house?

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Page S 1 Yes. Many, many, many guests. It was 2 never with no guests. 3 Q. Did he have assistants with him? 4 A. Assistants? At the last year he had an 5 assistant just for him. They would travel with him all 6 the time. At the last — in the last two years of my 7 stay there, he also have a chef, a gourmet chef that he 9 would travel with him. That’s it. 9 Q. Do you remember the chef’s name? 10 A. There were quite a few. The last one I 11 know is I think. And he was from 12 New York. 13 And there was another French chef, 14 (phonetic); I don’t know his last name. 15 And there was another English chef. But 16 they went quickly. 17 0. They would come and go, come and go. 16 What about the assistant that was his 19 personal assistant that would fly with him? 20 A. It was an English girl that ‘1 wnnld travel with him a int and herame the pergnnal 22 assistant. But most of the time it was Ms. Maxwell that 23 traveled with him all the time. 24 Q. She was basically like his 25 A. Girlfriend, whatever it was. Boss,¶

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Page 9 1 girlfriend. She was our immediate superior. 2 Q. Did he have girls come over to give 3 massages? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. How many massages would he have in a day? 6 A. Sometimes one, sometimes two, three. 7 Q. Was it the same girl that would come back 8 to do the massages? 9 A. Yeah, yeah. Not the same girl — I mean 10 during eleven years, I probably saw a hundred, two 11 hundred different massage therapists. 12 Q. Did they seem young to you? 13 A. No, sir. Mostly no. We saw one or two 14 young ones in the last year. Before that, it was all 15 adults. 16 Q. During your last year when you were working 17 with him, what do you mean that they looked young? Did 18 they look like they were still in high school? 19 A. I remember one girl was young. We never 20 asked how old she was. It was not in my job. 21 0 Right I nviaRrntmnei 22 A. But I imagine she was 16, 17. In my 23 judgment, she was 16, 17. 24 Q. Where would these massages take place? 25 A. All the time it was in his room. Sometimes¶

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Page 10 1 it was in the balcony of his quarters. His room has a 2 wraparound balcony facing the pool. So the massages were 3 in the balcony outside in the sun, or inside in his 4 bathroom or her bathroom. 5 O. Would you set up the room for the massages? 6 A. Many times. Yes, he will tell me, Set up 7 the room inside my bathroom or in the bedroom or in 8 Elaine’s bathroom, or outside on the balcony. And g would go and set up or my wife would go and set up the 10 table. 11 We had a table in every room of the house, 12 the massage tables, for the different guests. Because 13 not only he got massages, all the other guests got 14 massages too. So we have a table — massage table in 1 5 basically every room, guest room. 16 Q. The girls that would come over to do 17 massages, they would massage him first or massage guests? 18 A. Different times. There were — mostly they 19 was his massage. Mostly he would get massages. 20 Q. Would Ms. Maxwell be in the room with him 71 while he was /jetting the message, 22 A. We don’t know. Apparently we saw her going 23 upstairs, because it was — when they went upstairs, they 24 closed — his quarters, it had a double door, so it was a 25 door on top of the stairs — I don’t know if you’ve been¶

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in the house and then there’s another door going into his room. So it was a long corridor. So everything was Page 11 closed and nobody saw anything. Q. Would you clean up after? A. Once in a while, yes, I did. Most of the times I did. I did the cleanup. Q. Did it appear as if there was going to be more than one massage going on in the room? A. More than one massage? I don’t know. It was massages. There was massages, because it was a hot oil, and it was — you know this vibrator, the neck vibrators with the long handles. And towels, a lot of towels. We used a lot of towels in the house. Used like maybe 40, 50 towels a day, because every time he go in into the pool, it was two or three towels. Everything had to be cleaned up. I went most of the time to pick up the room and get it ready. Q. Did it ever appear to you that more went on in the room other than a massage? A. I just imagine. I never saw anything. But I imalina there way meat, than — I nnynr aaw Anything because it was closed doors. It was never done outside. Q. Based on the cleanup? A. Based on the cleanup — at the end, I cannot say there was. At the end, it was a few times I I¶

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Page 12 1 that the bed was undone. You know, we make the beds 2 three or four times a day. And sometimes we went to 3 clean up the massage to put it back, the massage table, 4 to pick up the towels, but the bed was undone again. So 5 either he took a nap or he went for a nap, I don’t know. 6 Q. Or something else occurred? 7 A. Or something else. I cannot. 8 Q. Did the girls, would they bring their own 9 stuff or they would use his stuff? 10 A. No. We had everything. We had gallons of 11 stuff, different stuff. 12 O. Different massage oils? 13 A. Different, all kinds. 14 O. Different massagers? 15 A. Different stuff. 16 They would buy all over the world different 17 types of — for different — 18 Q. Did any of these massagers look like sex 19 toys? 20 A. At the end, at the last year that we were y hod like y = -hem ’ can pay 22 maybe three or four occasions that I saw in the sink, 23 they were left out on the sink, and just 24 Q. Where would he keep these massagers? 25 A. When I was there, we keep all the stuff in¶

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Page 13 a basket inside Ms. Maxwell’s closet. It was a big basket, about this round (indicating), with a cover on it. And we used to pick up from the towel and just dump it in there. That’s it. That’s the standard we went through. Q. What sink would you find those massagers in? A. Mostly in his sink, in his bathroom sink. Q. His bathroom sink? Was Ms. Maxwell still his girlfriend at that time? A. Oh, yeah. Q. Still his girlfriend that you know of right now? A. Yeah. We left, she was still his girlfriend. I don’t know now, but she was still there. Q. Why did you leave at the end? A. It was a hard job. It was an incredible hard job. So demanding. Hours were terrible, from 5 o’clock in the morning to 10 o’clock at night. Constantly or you, foe,- I got very sick. My health went down the drain. I was diagnosed with cancer, polycythemia, a kind of blood cancer, and we had to leave. It was just too much for me.¶

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Page 14 Q. Sounds like a lot. A. Yeah. For me and my wife, we both left. Q. It was very demanding when he was here in town? A. It was terrible. Bad job. Pay was good, but we had enough. Q. I know you guys had a falling out a couple of years ago; I guess you weren’t working with him anymore. This would have been in 2003. You guys had a falling out, remember? A. Yeah, we settled that. Q. That was settled? A. That was settled with him between us. Q. Was that — A. It was an amicable — it was an agreement, mutual agreement. It was a mistake on my part. Q. Are there any questions you have of me? A. No. I told you the truth. We just imagined things that could have happened. I used to talk to my wife all day, working and under that environment Rut we didn’t knnw for sure what was going on. We never heard anything. We never heard a complaint, or a girl crying. Q. Would these massage girls, especially¶

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Page 15 1 towards the end, would they come alone or would they come 2 with other people? 3 A. Mostly they would come alone. It was one 4 girl, one of the young girls, the one I can’t think of 5 it, she would bring somebody else. She’d bring other 6 girls. But I didn’t even know the names. 7 Q. All of them would go downstairs? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Or would one stay downstairs? 10 A. Most of the times when that girl came, it 11 was at night. So after dinner — after dinner, they went 12 to the movies. And by the time they went to the movies, 13 we clean up right away and tried to get out of there. 14 And that was about 8, 9 o’clock at night. 15 After, when they come back, I don’t know 16 what happened. Our quarters were a different — I don’t 17 know if you’ve been in the house, but our quarters were 18 separate. 19 Q. It’s separate. 20 A. Separate. Before — that building is new. 23 T1 y b,414 the bailAieg in 2001. 22 Q. The guest quarters? 23 A. Yeah, the guest quarters. 24 Before, we had an apartment upstairs. 25 ^ They have the laundry and a little office¶

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Page 16 1 and the bedroom? 2 A. Yes. That was 2001. Before that, we had 3 an apartment upstairs in their house, in the main house. 4 Q. In the little rooms upstairs across from 5 his master bedroom? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. Was there ever any photographs that you can 8 recall around the house? 9 A. Girls, girls’ photographs and guests’ 10 photographs, yes. 11 Q. Were they dressed or were they naked? 12 A. Most of them were dressed. It was a lot of 13 entertainment in the pool, around the pool area. But 14 most of them were dressed. 15 Q. When was the last time you spoke with 16 Mr. Epstein? 17 A. The last time I spoke with Mr. Epstein was 18 about a week ago, when you left me the card. I got 19 scared because of that fallout that we had, and I thought 20 it was a consequence of that. And I called and says, 31 Jeffrey, what’s going-an, what’s happening? Beoauoe I 22 thought it was an investigation against me on his part. 23 Q. I’m sorry if I gave you that impression. 24 A. That’s why I called him. That’s the only 25 reason that I called.¶

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Page 17 1 Before I even spoke to you. 2 Q. Just when you found the card? 3 A. When I find the card, I get scared. 4 said, What’s going on now? Why are you bothering me now 5 in my house? 6 That’s why I called him. 7 He said, there is an investigation B going on. I have nothing to talk to you. That’s it. 9 I said, Okay. 10 Q. He didn’t give you any information as to — 11 A. No, not a word. 12 Q. Has anybody else contacted you from 13 Mr. Epstein or his organization, his assistants, his 14 attorney? 15 A. No, no, no. 16 Q. Anyone that works for his attorney? 17 A. For his attorney? Yes. For his attorney, 18 the present attorney? Yes. That was an investigator 19 that it was investigated on his side, I can’t remember 20 his name, but 1 understand it was from Roy Black’s 22 investigator basically asked me the same questions, 23 exactly the same questions: What did I know, what did I 24 know. 25 Q. When did this happen? J. ODNSOR & ASSOCIATES REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION¶

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Page 18 A. This happened about ten days ago — about a week ago, ten days ago. I’m not sure what date. Q. Was his investigator’s name — A. It’s the date after I contacted you. Q. — Paul, first name Paul? A. Paul, Paul, yes. You have the last name? Q. No. A. He asked me exactly the same questions. Q. Did he offer you any money? A. Absolutely not. I would not take it. Q. Did he tell you not to speak to me? A. No. He says — no, he told me not to speak to you. He didn’t say that to me. He says, It’s your choice. You make that decision. And he says, If you hire a lawyer, you make that decision. And we feel that was important for us. 1 don’t want to be involved with this thing. I’m out of the job three years ago, and that’s why we hired yr J$t.-rc11 Pr spgrjrctorl that Q. Did he ask you if anybody else has been contacted? A. No. Q. Did he tell you that to call him back after¶

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Page 19 our meeting? A. No, no-Q. Were you to have any contact with him at any time after our meeting? A. If I will have a contact? I have no reason for it. I have no reason to call Jeffrey or anybody else. This is over, I hope. 0. Well, Mr.a, this is basically an ongoing investigation, so obviously anything that we discuss hopefully will stay between us. Because it is still ongoing, I wouldn’t want this out until the investigation is complete. A. It’s not going anywhere. Even my kids don’t know it Q. He contacted you after you called Mr. Epstein? A. Yes. When I call him and I said, Jeffrey, what’s going on? He said, I don’t know what’s going nn ThAralq an invissrigatimn against me So then 1 said, Whew, thank God. I don’t know what’s happening. And then he says, I have an investigator that is investigating, the same thing the police¶

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Page 20 1 department is doing. He’s going to contact you. 2 And that was the end of it. 3 I think his name was Paul. I only met him 4 for about fifteen minutes, ten minutes. 5 Q. You met at your house? 6 A. No, no. I don’t want him at my house. We 7 met at Carrabas restaurant, but it was not open, so we 8 met outside Carrabas. It took about ten minutes. 9 Q. Going back to the items that were found in 10 the sink, can you describe any of those massagers? 11 A. I only saw two things: It was a big, 12 big I think a vibrator. Big (indicating). And it was 13 a long — I hate to — I’m sorry. It was a long dick, I 14 think. Rubber thing. And there was a thing you used it 15 in the back, the vibrator in the back. 16 Q. What color? 17 A. We always had those. Not those toys. 18 Vibrators, we have different types, one for the neck, one 19 for the back. You know the one that has a battery and 20 they move, with balls on it, vibrator. That’s it. 21 -That’s ..hat I fi d th re I n,.er fi-d r. 22 Those two things. 23 Q. Do you remember any names of the girls that 24 might have come over for massages? 25 A. Yes. I remember some of them. From the ad¶

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Page 22 1 the towels for the plane. 2 Q. Would you clean his plane too? 3 A. No, no. 4 Q. Did you ever travel with him anywhere? 5 A. No, no. 6 Q. When he went to New York or Arizona or his 7 private island? 8 A. I’ve been on his island. I’ve been as a 9 guest, as a vacation. We just took vacations, and I went 10 to his island in the Caribbean. And I’ve been in New 11 Mexico. I’ve been at his house in London. But not as a 12 worker, just vacation. 13 Q. As a vacation? 14 A. Uh-huh. 15 We went to New Mexico for — it was kind of 16 a symposium about how to clean homes. It was this lady 17 who make — teach all the house people, housemen, and 18 they invited us to Santa Fe, New Mexico, to teach us how 19 to clean homes. That was kind of stupid. 20 Q. How he wanted it to be cleaned? G1 A Yes. W. dida’t got th.t mech. 22 Q. Can you think of anything that I haven’t 23 asked you that might be relevant to this? 24 A. I can’t think of anything. Basically it’s 25 the same questions that the other investigator asked me.¶

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Page 23 Exactly the same. I wish I could give you more names. Allison — Q. I’m not going to ask you to do that because I know it’s been a long time. I can’t think of stuff did last week. A. It’s been a long time. Q. If by any chance you are contacted again by his investigator again for any more questions or anything or any packages that he may deliver to you — A. They have to go to Mr. Murrell. Q. I was going to say, have him contact your attorney. MR. MURRELL: Packages? Are we expecting a delivery of something? DET. No. I’m just saying MR. MURRELL: Okay. Just making sure there wasn’t something I didn’t know about. DET. I.e., gifts, et cetera. That kind of thing. THP WTTNCCC• Nn DET. : I would appreciate a phone call just to give me a heads up. THE WITNESS: I do not intend to contact him at all.¶

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I appreciate it.	Okay. DET.
	2 And that’s it.
	3 (Thereupon, the sworn statement was
	concluded at 1:05 p.m.)
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Page 25 1 THE STATE OF FLORIDA, 2 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH. 3 4 5 I, the undersigned authority, certify that 6 personally appeared before me and was duly 7 sworn. 9 10 of December, 2005. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 WITNESS my hand and official seal this Sth day usan Sh ing, RPR Notary Pu•lic - State of Florida My Commission No. DD O98441 / My Commission expires 3/7/2006 _ … • • miu984•1 Expres limit 7. 2035 bads, llgs haerrle Bacangth.tx, 22 23 24 25 A¶

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Page 26 CERTIFICATE
The State Of Florida, County Of Palm Beach.
I, Susan Shelling, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
Florida at Large, do hereby certify that
was by me first duly sworn to testify the that I was authorized to and did report said sworn statement in stenotype; and that the foregoing pages,
numbered from 1 to 24, inclusive, are a true and correct
transcription of my shorthand notes of said sworn statement.
I further certify that said sworn statement was taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth and
that the taking of said sworn statement was commenced and completed as hereinabove set out.
I further certify that I am not an attorney or
counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel of party connected
with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action.
The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means unless under the direct control and/or direction of
the certifying reporter.
have he eu. o st my hand IN WITNESS WHEREOF,
nb•r, 200 and seal this 5th day of
Nwtury. Public _
n and or the State of Florida My Commission No. DD 098441
My Commission Expires 3/7/2006 /

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