DOJ Epstein Files, Data Set 7 (EFTA00009448)

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

IN RE: OPERATION LEAP YEAR

Federal Grand Jury, 07-103 West Palm Beach, Florida February 27, 2007

APPEARANCES:

, ESQUIRE

Assistant United States Attorney

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1 you have a chance to interview ? A Yes, I did. Q And when was that? A Last night. s Q Back in March of 2005, you mentioned that detective met with on or more than one occasion? 8 A Yes. Q If you could give us sort of an overview of what reported during these interviews, and then if there are specific discrepancies or differences, we will return to those later. A All right. On February 5, 2005, it was a Saturday, and I. was at house, I. She was there with her boyfriend, I. And because these are minors, we’ll refer to them without using their last names, so I’ll use those initials. They were at residence, and I. is boyfriend, which is also cousin. So they were all at house, and was on the phone with an individual that refers to as the assistant. described the assistant as a tall blonde. So throughout I’ll refer to her as the blonde lady, if that’s okay. was unable to recall her name. So is on the phone with the assistant for Jeffrey Page 61i

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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 8 massage that was going to take place? A Yes. Q So and have this argument. What does decide to do? A decides to go. Q Because she wanted to make the $200 or $300? A Yes. Q So tell us then what happened after that meeting? A The next day, February 6 – they discussed that evening about going the next day. We do have on phone records two calls that were placed. One was placed to cell phone, and the other was placed to Jeffrey Epstein’s residence the night of February 5. The next day is contacted a couple of times before arrives. Each time prior to being contacted by a call is placed by to cell phone. , I should tell you, is Jeffrey’s assistant. So on Sunday a call was placed to and then shortly after that a call was made to . That same series occurs again, but this time places a call to Mr. Epstein’s residence, and then is called again. Eventually, comes to residence with

Page 9 1 another girl in the car, I* So the two of them arrive at residence, and they continue over to Mr. Epstein’s house. 4 Q is driving with and . Do you 5 know how they were sitting? A You know, I’m not sure how they were sitting, but I know that it was a pickup truck that drove, and was the driver. I’m not sure exactly the placement of the other two girls, but they were in the truck. 11 Q And was able to describe how they travelled to the island of Palm Beach? A Yes. She gave directions – you know, the best that she could on how she was able to come to Mr. Epstein’s residence. 16 Q Once they arrived at the residence, what happened? A I should have mentioned that either the night before or the day of, there were some things that tells . One, she tells that she is to tell, if asked, that she is 18-years-of-age, that she attends high school, that she’s in the 12th grade, and I believe it was that she was to say that she went to. Talking to ■ last night, told us that

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Page 10 once she arrived at the residence tells her that she may possibly be asked to take her clothes off. She also tells her that she can stay in her bra, but she may be asked to take her clothes off. And told us last night that that’s when she knew for the first time that she might have to possibly remove her clothes. At this point they proceed to enter the residence. describes him as a security person. He approached and asked what they were doing there, and said they were there to see Mr. Epstein, or see Jeffrey. He allowed them entry into the kitchen area by the pool, and describes that area. So now and are all sitting in the kitchen. A short time goes by and Mr. Epstein, as well as the assistant, enter the kitchen. Q And I know that you mentioned that did not know the name of the lady who was there in the kitchen, correct? A Right. Q She just described her as a blonde, tall lady?

21 A Yes.

22 23 Q Was also interviewed about what happened that day?

24 25 A She was interviewed by the Palm Beach police department.

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Page 12 When he comes back in, he tells her that she needs to take ²her pants off. So she took her pants off. So now she’s 3 ⁴Q At some point did tell any of the people who interviewed her what was running through her mind? ⁶A She stated at one point that she was upstairs ⁷with him, with the man, and that was downstairs. ^{I 8}guess she says, “What could do? She’s downstairs, 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ²³laying on the table, he has a towel covering his bottom, ²⁴and she is straddling him with her bottom touching the ²⁵towel and some skin touching his lower back. She was kind in her bra and underwear. I’m upstairs.” So she did what she was asked to do. Q So now you mention that Mr. Epstein is here wearing just a towel, and has removed both her shirt and her pants, is that correct? A Yes. Q Tell us what happens then? ^AMr. Epstein gets on the massage table lying on his stomach and instructs how to do the massage. He tells her to put some lotion on her hand and instructs her on how to actually perform the massage. At one point during the massage he tells that she would be more comfortable to get on top of him, so gets on top of him and straddles Mr. Epstein’s back. The way describes it is Mr. Epstein is

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Page 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that she noted seeing? A She noted seeing several naked pictures of girls in the room, a mural or pictures of naked girls either exposing their breasts or completely naked. Q While the massage was going on, did Mr. Epstein talk to A Yes, he did. Q And did he talk about sexual conquests with girls? A Yes, he did. Q Once Mr. Epstein has provided with the $300, what did she do? A She went back downstairs and she, and leave the residence. In the car they ask how much money she has made, and she tells them $300. wants to see the money. She shows the money to , and asks what did she do. At that point tells her that he Q When they left the house, where did they go? A When they left the house, they were on their way to a mall to go shopping with the money that they had received from Mr. Epstein. had told the night before that she needed some shoes and wanted to go to the mall, and she was going to Mr. Epstein’s to pick up some money. That was another reason that she had for going to

Page 17 Mr. Epstein’s house that day, and that they were going to go shopping after she got her money, and that MI could make some money. Q During that ride, did realize that ME received money from Mr. Epstein? A Yes. At some point knows that received $200, but is unsure that ever gave ^a massage. So at that particular time did not know why she had gotten the S200, because she didn’t think that 3.0 had had time to give a massage. interview, did she explain what:she got the $200 for? A told the Palm Beach police department in her interview that she received her $200 for bringing to the house. Q You mentioned that there were these three different time periods that was interviewed: Shortly after the events, at the time of the state grand jury proceedings, and when you met with her, correct? A Yes. Q And there were some discrepancies between the different interviews. Can you explain some of those to the grand jury. A Before we go and get to that, I want to make sure that – when we discussed what was told in the e.er-72-t, (rat -3

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Page 18 car byllill, that we learned from ME interview with the Palm Beach police department. So I don’t know if ^I said that, but I want to make sure you know that we first learned that= by listening to the interview that was conducted between the Palm Beach police department andillill, not fromilill. When I talk later, ^I just want to make sure you realize that that had not initially come out in interview, but through the interview with So going back. I’m sorry, discrepancies? Q Yes. A I met with last night to discuss some of the discrepancies when looking at what she had talked to detective about in March of 2005 and what she had testified to in the grand jury in July of 2006. Reading the testimony and listening to the tapes, or reading the. transcript, there were a few discrepancies. One of the first ones we talked about was what had told her about going to Mr. Epstein’s house. She tells detective that she was told about the massage, told about getting $200, but that she was not told that she would have to take her clothes off. She didn’t know she would have to perform the massage naked. when I asked her last night that question, she told me that when she got to the house prior to going into

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Page 19 Mr. Epstein’s residence, that I= did tell her that she may be asked to take off her clothes. She also did state that told her she could stay in her bra. So I wanted you to know that there was ^a discrepancy in what she originally had told detective MI and what she told me last night. That would be one. The second discrepancy i wanted to touch on with her was going upstairs and taking off her clothing. When she is in that room, she states to detective that asked her to remove her clothing, and she took off her shirt. Then Mr. Epstein came in the room, shook her hand and told her to take off her clothes. He leaves, he comes back in a towel. He tells her again. tells detective in a stern voice, ’Mr. Epstein told me to take off my pants.” Because she hadn’t taken off her pants from the first time that she met him. In her testimony with the grand jury with the state, she tells the grand jury that it was who asked her to remove her clothing. So last night we went over with her who told her to remove what. She had ^avery hard time recalling exactly. She knew she had gotten down to her bra and underwear. And then at some point, when we’re going through the sexual activity, she actually tells me that her underwear was off when he was

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1. Page 20 Later in the interview, we tell her about what we have in her testimony to the grand jury and her statements made to detective And she really is having a difficult time trying to remember who told her to take off her clothes and her pants. As we are walking through the sexual activity, she does recall and states. that it was Mr. Epstein who told. her to take off her pants. 9 I guess I’ll go to the third discrepancy. Is 10 there anything I left off with that? 11 Q Well, does she report that when the assistant leads – or the blonde lady leads her upstairs, that the blonde lady also said, “Get undressed,” but that didn’t get fully undressed? A That’s what she said in her statement to the detective, when she gives her first statement. She tells us again last night that that’s what she recalled. 18 Q That the lady said first, “Get undressed,” but she doesn’t get fully undressed. And when Jeffrey comes back, he said, “Take your pants off.”? A Yes. And again, like I said, when we started interviewing her and asking her about this, she did have a hard time. But when we were walking through the sexual activity, that’s when she recalls who told her to take off her pants.

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Page 22 she did not know that had told anybody, she thought it was only her and that knew. She was embarrassed and didn’t want anybody to know that. 4 Q Did she become visually upset? A Yes, she began crying when we asked her about . when she realized that we knew about that, she became very upset and concerned about her father. She mentioned that her father has read a lot 9 of the reports in the State of Florida, and has followed the state’s case. She was concerned about even telling us, afraid that he would be able to read in our reports about this. We explained to her that the FBI’s reporting is a little bit different than the way the state – those are public records, and ours is part of our case file. 16 Q In addition to the fact that she had these concerns about her father and she was embarrassed, in your experience of interviewing victims of sexual abuse, is it 19 typical for them to not disclose all of the sexual activity? 21 A Yes, it’s very typical. And young girls, they don’t want to talk about it. This is just another case of her not wanting to tell exactly what took place. 24 Q After that first visit to Mr. Epstein’s house, and the interviews with detective , did detective

1 Page 26 ¹ at Mr. Epstein’s house? 2 A Mr. Epstein. 3 Q You mentioned a girl named 4 A Yes. 5 Q Was also interviewed? 6 A Yes, she was. 7 Q Was she asked about going With to take 8 girls to Mr. Epstein’s house? 9 A Yes. 10 0 Was she asked who the youngest-looking girl was? 11 A Yes. 12 Q What did she say? 13 A She discussed looking young in her 14 interview with the Palm Beach police department. 15 Those are all of my questions 16 for you now. If you could please step outside, I’ll 17 see if the grand jurors have any. 18 (Witness excused, and then returned.) 19 BY■ 20 Q Agent , we have just a few questions. 21 One relates to the conversation between Mr. Epstein and 22 about his exploits with other girls. Did Mr. Epstein 23 say anything about the age of those girls? 24 A He said that – in particular on one case he 25 talked about a young girl that he was in the back seat

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 23 NM ask MI to make what are called controlled calls? A Yes. Q Can you explain to the grand jury what ^a controlled call is? ^AA controlled call is where we actually have ^a listening device, where we have an individual place a call to somebody and we are able to record the other person’s voice and the conversation that takes place between the person that we’re having make the call and the person that they are calling. Q Who did detective ask to call? ^Awas asked to call on the phone. Q And did she do so? A Yes, she did. Q Can you tell the grand jury when the calls were? ^AI believe the first call was made towards the end of March, I believe it was March 30. called at the Olive Garden where works. was concerned that father had found out somehow and that they knew about it. And she refers to him as Jeffrey, but Mr. Epstein. told her that they did not know about Mr. Epstein. Later in the conversation tells her that Mr. Epstein would like her to come back and work for him, and that maybe she could work for him tomorrow. So

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Page 24 1 they agreed that there would be a call between and tomorrow, that will call tomorrow. Q were there calls also made on March 31 of 2006? 4 A There were two calls made on March 31. The first one she doesn’t connect to . The second call that was made a short time later, answers the phone. Again, there is a discussion about coming to work for Mr. Epstein. tells – one of the comments that is made is, “The more you do, the more you make.” is asking her how much can I make. Again, detective is there, and is asking , how much can I make. is telling that she’ll have to ask Mr. Epstein that, that she is going to see Mr. Epstein tomorrow and that she’ll talk to Mr. Epstein. There is conversation about and her twin sister possibly coming to Mr. Epstein’s house. There is some discussion about her coming to work for Mr. Epstein. Q Just so it’s clear, because there were a lot of shes, is telling that is going to see Epstein the following day? 22 A Yes. Q And that is going to set up a schedule with Mr. Epstein for and her sister to work for him? A Yes.

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