EFTA00180369 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 27 of 100 Censor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO. 2006 CF09454AXX STATE OF FLORIDA, JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. ## DEPOSITION OF Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:00 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Palm Beach County Courthouse 205 North Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Judith F. Consor, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Consor & Associates Reporting and Transcription Phone - 561.682.0905 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 27 of 316 EFTA00180370 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 29 of 100 Agent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 3 INDEX 2 WITNESS: DIRECT EXAMINATION NO E X H I B I T S M A R K E D
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Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 29 of 316 EFTA00180371 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 31 of 100 Page 5 my questions, will you just please let me know. A. Yes. Q. And if at any time you're not feeling well or something like that, you'll tell us, right? A. Yes. Q. Do you feel okay today? A. Yes. Q. Not taking any alcohol or drugs or anything like that, right? A. No. Q. So you feel ready to have your deposition taken? A. Yes. Q. what is your address? A. I'm currently living at my aunt's house and I don't know it off the top of my head. Q. Where is it? A. In Jupiter. Q. Who is your aunt? A. Who else is living there? A. my uncle. Q. Anyone else living there? A. No. Q. The contempt motion that your mother filed 31 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180372 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 33 of 100 Insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 7 Q. Where is that? A. Palm Beach Lakes. Q. Have you spent the night over there? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know the address there? A. I do not. Q. Isn't your sister planning on living with you and? A. No. Q. you know that this court case is a criminal prosecution, correct? A. Correct. Q. And you know that it's a criminal prosecution against a man who has no criminal background. Do you know that? A. I do now. Q. You agree that court is a very serious matter? A. Yes. Q. And you're here with your lawyer Mr. Leopold, right? A. Yes. Q. And you know that Mr. Leopold recently filed a lawsuit in federal court against Jeffrey Epstein, seeking fifty million dollars. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 33 of 316 EFTA00180373 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 35 of 100 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 9 MR. LEOPOLD: Lewis, we're not going to do that. MR. TEIN: My name is not Lewis. I'm going to finish my question. Okay? MR. LEOPOLD: Do not answer until you hear from me. BY MR. TEIN: Q. Other than conversations that you have had with Mr. Leopold -- I'm not asking about that -- are you aware that Mr. Leopold has filed a lawsuit in federal court seeking fifty million dollars from Jeffrey Epstein on your behalf? MR. LEOPOLD: Same objection. MR. LEOPOLD: Same objection. Anything that you learn through conversations between you and me, do not answer. Those are protected. If you know through any other realm of knowledge, you may answer. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You have no idea that Mr. Leopold filed a fifty million-dollar lawsuit on your behalf against Jeffrey Epstein? MR. LEOPOLD: Same objection. Do not answer that question if it's through discussions that you and I had. Outside of that, 35 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180374 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 37 of 100 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 11 objections. Check your rules. MR. LEOPOLD: Excuse me. For the record, Counsel asked me a question. I'll state the answer on the record. He asked me the question am I going to be answering that way throughout the deposition. So long as there's improper foundation and predicate asked by the attorney, I will protect my client and I make the record where appropriate. If counsel wishes to ask an appropriate worded question with the proper foundation and predicate, I will certainly allow the client to answer the question. MR. GOLDBERGER: Why don't you just state attorney/client privilege and just be done with it? MR. LEOPOLD: I want the record to be clear. MR. TEIN: You want to waste time is what you want to do. You were supposed to be here this morning and you totally broke the deal, the agreement that you had with us if your hearing got cancelled. But let's move on and maybe you'll stop obstructing this deposition. MR. LEOPOLD: I think the record is very Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 37 of 316 EFTA00180375 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 39 of 100 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 13 an attorney, filed a fifty-million-dollar lawsuit on your behalf against Jeffrey Epstein, yes or no? MR. LEOPOLD: Same objection. MR. TEIN: We've heard the objection 10 times already. MR. LEOPOLD: Counsel, excuse me. MR. TEIN: Just say attorney/client privilege. Stop interrupting my questions. MR. LEOPOLD: I'm entitled to make an objection for the record, which I'm doing, and I'll make the same objection. And if it calls for attorney/client privilege, any conversations you and I have had, do not answer the question. And I think that it might be appropriate, for the record, to ask questions via as opposed to I think that would be more appropriate for this deposition. BY MR. TEIN: Q. Go ahead. Please answer yes or no. A. Yes. Q. Thank you. In fact, you know that Mr. Herman held a press conference after he filed the fifty-million-dollar lawsuit on your behalf, don't you? A. After it happened. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 39 of 316 EFTA00180376 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 41 of 100 Agent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 15 MR. LEOPOLD: We're going to leave or we're going to take a break, because his demeanor is not appropriate. There's no reason to have this kind of demeanor. If you want to have this kind of demeanor with me -- MR. TEIN: You are obstructing this deposition. MR. GOLDBERGER: Why don't you guys go outside and just talk about -- MR. LEOPOLD: She -- her job is very difficult and she's not going to be able to take us both talking at the same time. MR. GOLDBERGER: Off the record. MR. LEOPOLD: We're not going off the record, Jack. We're not, Jack. Her job is very difficult. I'm going to make the record. I don't think it is appropriate, especially in the small confines of this room, to be very aggressive with this young lady. MR. TEIN: That's not happening. Stop, stop actually -- MR. LEOPOLD: If you're going to interrupt me, we're going to cancel this deposition -- MR. TEIN: Stop misrepresenting. THE COURT REPORTER: I need one at a time, Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 41 of 316 EFTA00180377 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 43 of 100 ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 17 You were supposed to be here at nine a.m.; it's now after two. Take your break and come back. MR. LEOPOLD: Okay. If the demeanor keeps up, we will not be here beyond those five minutes. MR. TEIN: Take your break and come back. MR. LEOPOLD: Okay. So I suggest that you relax. MR. TEIN: I suggest that you take your break. MR. GOLDBERGER: Let them take that five-minute break. MR. LEOPOLD: But I would suggest that you take deep breaths. MR. TEIN: Suggest whatever you want. Go take a break. (Thereupon, a recess was taken.) BY MR. TEIN: Q. **you agree that giving testimony today at your deposition is something very serious, don't you?** A. Yes. Q. And you respect the court, don't you? A. Yes. Q. Let me show you Exhibit 31-001. Can you Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 43 of 316 EFTA00180378 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 45 of 100 Page 19 1. Q. Did you send that message to a friend of yours on MySpace? 2. A. Sure, yes. 3. Q. Were you referring to this deposition? 4. A. Yes. 5. Q. Do you find the term n-i-g-g-e-r offensive? 6. A. That's not anywhere in there. 7. Q. What word did you use in there? 8. MR. LEOPOLD: Where are you referring to, 9. Counsel? There's 20 plus words in there. 10. MR. TEIN: Don't make a speaking objection. 11. THE WITNESS: Are you referring to anything -- 12. MR. LEOPOLD: No, Don't -- don't -- let him ask you the question. 13. BY MR. TEIN: 14. Q. What question were you asking, ? 15. MR. LEOPOLD: She doesn't ask questions. 16. You ask the questions. What is the question pending? 17. BY MR. TEIN: 18. Q. what is the last word on there in the text of your message before the closing? 19. A. Niggaa. 20. Q. Don't you find that term offensive? 45 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180379 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Censor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 47 of 100 Page 21 BY MR. TEIN: BY MR. TEIN: Q. Let me ask you, did you in fact write your friend this message about this deposition? A. Yes. Q. So you wrote your friend that this deposition is stupid court s-h-i-t, correct? A. Yes. Q. Because you think this deposition is stupid court s-h-i-t, don't you? A. No. Q. You wrote that to your friend, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. You think that court is stupid, don't you? A. In some cases. Q. And you think that court is bull s-h-i-t, don't you? A. No. Q. And you think this deposition is bull s-h-i-t, don't you? A. No. Q. You wrote that to your friend, didn't you? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Asked and answered. MR. TEIN: That's not an objection. BY MR. TEIN: Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 47 of 316 EFTA00180380 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Docket 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Censor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 49 of 100 Page 23 BY MR. TEIN: today, under oath, is bull s-h-i-t, don't you? A. No. Q. And you wrote that to your friend on MySpace last week, didn't you? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: No, I did not. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You didn't write this exhibit? A. I wrote that, but I didn't write what you said. Q. You wrote in this exhibit, "I got some stupid court s-h-i-t on the 20th. Bull s-h-i-t." Didn't you write that? A. Yes. Q. Referring to this deposition, didn't you? A. Referring to the court. I was later informed that it was a deposition. Q. I'm going to ask you some questions now about what happened when you went to Jeff Epstein's house three years ago. Okay? A. Uh-huh. Q. When the police interviewed you one month 49 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180381 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 51 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 25 A. Yes. Q. Before you got to Epstein's house never said anything to you on the telephone about sexual activity with Epstein, did she? A. No. Q. And before you got to Epstein's house never sent you a message over the Internet about sexual activity with Epstein, did she? A. No. Q. Did ever try to convince you to engage in any sexual activity with Epstein? A. No. Q. Did every try to convince you to engage in any sexual activity with Epstein? A. I don't know who is. Q. Do you have a friend? A. No. Q. Okay. Before you went so Epstein's house did anyone call or e-mail you to induce you to engage in sexual activity with Epstein? Q. So you're sure that before you got to Epstein's house no one tried to persuade you to engage in sexual activity with Jeffrey Epstein? A. No. 51 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180382 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 53 of 100 ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 27 MR. LEOPOLD: If you do it one more time, we're leaving. BY MR. TEIN: MR. LEOPOLD: I'm going to make the record. You cannot interrupt me when I'm making the record. Out of professional conduct, you cannot do that. I'm entitled to make the record. I made an objection, asked and answered. Your demeanor is inappropriate. You're willing and you are able and you're responsible to ask a question in a professional manner, and ask the question and once you get the answer, to either follow up on it or move on, but not continuously browbeat and ask the same question over and over because you don't like the answer. MR. TEIN: Calm down, sir. MR. LEOPOLD: Trust me, I'm very calm here. When I'm not calm, you'll know it. I'm very calm. So please continue on. But I will not allow you to continue to harass her in the demeanor that you're doing. Ask her a question and move on. MR. TEIN: Are you done? MR. LEOPOLD: Thank you. I am. 53 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180383 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 55 of 100 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 29 put up with it and I don't need to put up with it and it's not appropriate. And I'm sure Mr. Goldberger knows all this, because I know that he wouldn't do this. So I will not put up with it. And I think it's highly inappropriate to do this with this child sitting here, the way you're acting, primarily towards me, and I will not put up with it. MR. TEIN: Will you please stop your speech so I can ask questions? MR. LEOPOLD: So long as you act professionally, I will do so. But if you continue to do it this way, I will leave. MR. TEIN: Suit yourself. BY MR. TEIN: Q. Are you sure that before you got to Epstein's house no one tried to persuade you to engage in sexual activity with Epstein for money? MR. LEOPOLD: Asked and answered. Objection. MR. TEIN: Did you get her answer? THE COURT REPORTER: No, I did not. THE WITNESS: I'm sure. BY MR. TEIN: Q. Let me ask you a few questions about your Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 55 of 316 EFTA00180384 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 57 of 100 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 31 A. No. Q. All right. Let me ask you two final areas of questioning about this and we'll move onto something else. Okay? A. Uh-huh. Yes. I'm sorry. Q. Before you got to Epstein's did anyone associated with Epstein ever call you on the phone and try to persuade, induce, entice or coerce you to engage in any sexual activity? A. No. Q. Before you got to Epstein's did anybody associated with Epstein ever contact you on the Internet and try to persuade, induce, entice or coerce you to engage in any sexual activity? A. No. Q. who told you that when you got to Jeff Epstein's house you should lie to Jeff about your age? Q. Was it or was it the other girl in the car who you rode over with to Epstein's house? Q. Who was the other girl in the car with you that day? A. I honestly don't know. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 57 of 316 EFTA00180385 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 39 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 33 Q. When you first met Jeff he tried to find out how old you were, right? A. Not when we first introduced each other; when we get upstairs, then, yes. Q. During the massage Jeff asked you how old you were, correct? A. Yes, yes. Q. Now hadn't you already told Jeff's assistant, the one who walked you upstairs, that you went to college and had just moved down here from Ohio? A. I never spoke to the lady. Q. Do you want to rethink that answer? MR. LEOPOLD: Is that a question? BY MR. TEIN: Q. Do you want to rethink that answer? A. No. I didn't really speak with her that much. Q. Do you want to try to refresh your memory on that? MR. LEOPOLD: Do you have something to refresh her memory with? MR. TEIN: Do you want to stop making speaking objections? MR. LEOPOLD: No. But to refresh someone's memory, you show them a document. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 59 of 316 EFTA00180386 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 61 of 100 Page 35 Q. You can answer the question. A. Sure. Q. Is there anything that would refresh your memory that in fact you told Mr. Epstein's assistant, the one who walked you upstairs, that you went to college and you had just moved down here from Ohio? A. I don't remember saying that, but if you -- I don't remember saying that myself, so -- Q. That would be a lie, right? A. No. I really don't remember. Q. So you told Jeff that you were 18 years old, correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember Detective Michelle Pagan of the Police Department, Palm Beach Police Department? A. Yes. B. No. C. Do you remember you spoke to her? D. Did you speak to her? A. Yes. B. No. C. Do you remember you spoke to her? D. Did you speak to her? Q. Do you remember that you told Detective Pagan that when you lied about your age to Jeff you said it really fast because you didn't want to make it sound like you were lying? A. I don't remember the words exactly, but I do remember telling her I told him I was 18. Q. And do you remember telling Detective Pagan 61 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180387 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 63 of 100 ent 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 37 BY MR. TEIN: Q. Let me put it again. Does it sound right to you that you told Detective Pagan that when you lied about your age to Jeffrey Epstein, you said it really fast because you didn't want to make it sound like you were lying? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Lack of foundation, asked and answered. THE WITNESS: I could have possibly said that, yes. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You didn't want Mr. Epstein to know that you were lying about your age, right? A. Correct. Q. You didn't want Mr. Epstein to know that you were not 18 yet, right? A. Correct. Q. You wanted Mr. Epstein to believe that you really were 18, right? A. Correct. Q. Do you remember when Mr. Epstein asked where you went to school? A. Yes. Q. And you told Mr. Epstein you went to Wellington, right? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 63 of 316 EFTA00180388 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 65 of 100 insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 39 that would do that to a witnesses or to a person that's sitting in this chair is not acting professionally. You can't ask a question like that. You can do it, but it's not proper. And I'm sure you weren't trained that way, certainly not ethically. A. Incorrect; because he asked me to take off my bra, so that would be two things he's asked me to do. Q. Other than asking you to take your bra off, Mr. Epstein never asked you to do anything with him other than massage, correct? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 65 of 316 EFTA00180389 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 67 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 41 Q. You told the police twice when you spoke to Michelle Pagan that "at no time did he touch me." Didn't you say that to the police? A. Yeah. Q. And you're saying that that was not fully truthful. Is that what you're saying now? A. Correct. Q. And you're saying if you're not fully truthful, that's not a lie. Correct? A. You took that out of context like really bac. I didn't mean like that. Touching my legs and -- he never kept his hands to himself the entire time. That's what I'm trying to say. Q. You told the police, "At no times did he touch me." You agree with that, correct? A. No, I don't agree with that, because he did touch me. Q. Did you tell the police that he did not touch you, yes or no? A. It's a possibility, but I do not remember. Q. Okay. And you did not have any type of sex with Jeff, correct? Q. And you did not have any type of oral sex with Jeff, correct? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 67 of 316 EFTA00180390 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 69 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 43 things, but it wasn't joking about it at all. Q. You joked about it, didn't you? A. No. Q. You said to that if you did this every weekend you'd be rich, didn't you? A. No. That's what told me. Q. You didn't tell that to MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. TEIN: Q. After you left Epstein's house you took the money and you went shopping with and the other girl in the car, correct? A. Incorrect. I didn't spend any of the money. Q. You went to Marshall's, didn't you? A. I went along, yes, but I didn't -- Q. You went shopping with them at Marshall's, didn't you? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. THE WITNESS: I guess you could say that. MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Lack of predicate and foundation. Mischaracterization of earlier testimony. 69 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180391 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 71 of 100 Page 45 A. It was not this year, no. Q. Was it 2007? A. I'd have to say at least two years ago or a year ago, yeah. So it would be 2007, 2006; but it was a while ago. Q. How many federal prosecutors or FBI agents came to your house? A. I'm trying to remember. I want to say four people came. Q. Did they give you their business cards? A. If they did, I don't remember, and they weren't toward me. Maybe my parents have them. I don't know. Q. Did they give you their cell phone numbers? A. No. Q. Did you ever speak to them on their cell phones? A. That's something you'd have to ask my parents. Q. Do you know whether they spoke to your parent's? 71 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180392 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 73 of 100 Page 47 fashion, you may answer. THE WITNESS: Okay. I wouldn't know. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You don't know? A. No. MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Foundation. Attorney/client privilege. BY MR. TEIN: Q. And you say you don't know who is? A. No, sir. Q. Does it refresh your recollection that he's A. No. Q. That he's boss? A. No. Q. Does it refresh your memory that he's the ex-partner of Jeff Herman, the first lawyer who sued you -- sued Mr. Epstein on your behalf for fifty million dollars? A. No, sir. I don't know who he is. Q. Without telling me any conversations that you've had with your lawyers, how is it that you selected Mr. Herman as your lawyer from the 81,000 members of the Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 73 of 316 EFTA00180393 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Page 75 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 49 Mr. Herman in the presence of A. None. Q. What discussions did you have in the presence of her aunt? A. Of my aunt? MR. GOLDBERGER: It's the witness's aunt. A. The only one that we've ever discussed or ever had. Q. And so you were in a conversation with Mr. Herman and your aunt? Q. And you discussed privileged matters during that conversation? MR. LEOPOLD: Object to the form. I think you might have to educate her on that question. BY MR. TEIN: A. As far as I'm concerned, she's never spoken or she's never had a conversation. She only opened the door and then left. She's the one who answered the door. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 75 of 316 EFTA00180394 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 77 of 100 Page 51 A. No. Q. And we've learned that many of the girls, some of whom are as old as 23, were told by the government that they would get money at the end of the criminal prosecution. Does that sound familiar to you? A. No, sir. Q. Other than Mr. Leopold here -- I'm not asking about Mr. Herman either -- A. Uh-huh. Q. -- did anyone ever discuss with you that you could get reimbursement for your damages? A. No, sir. Q. Did you or any member -- MR. LEOPOLD: Are you referring to a criminal matter or a civil matter? BY MR. TEIN: Q. Did you or any member -- MR. LEOPOLD: Excuse me. Let me object to the form of the question. BY MR. TEIN: Q. Did you or any member of your family ever get a victim notification letter from anyone? A. I no longer live at that residence and I wouldn't know. Q. So your testimony is that you have never Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 77 of 316 EFTA00180395 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 79 of 100 Reporting and Transcription, Inc. nsor & Associates Page 53 it back at the end of the meeting? A. No. They -- yeah. No. They have it. I'm guessing. I don't have it. Q. How much money are you hoping to get out of Mr. Epstein? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection to the form of the question. Attorney/client privilege. BY MR. TEIN: Q. How much money are you hoping to get, you, yourself, hoping to get out of Epstein? MR. LEOPOLD: Same. Same objection, attorney/client privilege. Don't answer the question. BY MR. TEIN: Q. I'm not asking about what your lawyer told you. MR. LEOPOLD: I'm instructing her not to answer the question, because any of those conversations involve her counsel. MR. TEIN: Certify that. MR. LEOPOLD: Please. ...CERTIFIED QUESTION... BY MR. TEIN: Q. Now, you lied to get out of this deposition, didn't you? 79 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180396 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 81 of 100 Page 55 BY MR. TEIN: Q. You asked your co-workers -- MR. LEOPOLD: It's vague and ambiguous. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You asked your co-workers at the Quarterdeck Tavern to lie for you, didn't you? A. No. I informed my boss about what was going on and he told me that he would help in any way that he can. Q. Okay. You got your friend to lie by switching name tags with you, correct? A. Incorrect. It was a coincidence that same night she was not wearing her name tag; she was wearing mine. But I was also not wearing -- I was wearing my name tag. Everyone switches name tags. It just so happens it was a coincidence that same night the people came with the papers. MR. TEIN: Will you put up Exhibit 18-001? MR. GOLDBERGER: And mark 18-001 for identification purposes to this deposition. MR. LEOPOLD: None of them have been marked yet. Can we mark them and put them as attachment to the depositions? Because I think you've shown three photos now. And this is the only one that Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180397 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 83 of 100 Insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 57 A. Yes. Q. your friend, who you say the day that the process servers went to serve you with a subpoena for this deposition, just happened -- just by coincidence, was wearing your name tag? A. Yes, sir. Q. And just by coincidence, you were wearing her name tag, correct? A. Yes. Q. Your testimony under oath is that's just a coincidence, right? A. Total honesty. Q. It just happens to be the day that you were going to be served with a subpoena, correct? A. That wasn't the first day that -- MR. LEOPOLD: just answer the question. It calls for a yes or no. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You said that wasn't the first day you were going to be -- you thought you were being served with a subpoena, correct? A. Correct. Q. You knew before the day that you switched name tags with that the process servers were Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180398 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 85 of 100 Page 59 MR. LEOPOLD: I'll certify it. CERTIFIED QUESTION She's answered that question. She's explained it five times already. The fact that Counsel doesn't like the answer, that's a different query. MR. TEIN: Stop making speaking objections. MR. LEOPOLD: I'm not. I'm not going to put up with it, because it's in appropriate, Jack, and you know it. I will not allow Counsel to berate a witness, whether it's in a criminal case or a civil case, whether my client or -- MR. TEIN: Calm down. MR. LEOPOLD: Excuse me. No, I'm not going to allow it. That is not proper. MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. MR. LEOPOLD: If he wants to say that she's lying after asking it five times and her explaining in great detail, he can do that. But I'm not going to allow her to answer, nor be harassed by him. It's improper. MR. GOLDBERGER: Okay. But your response that Counsel doesn't like the question -- or doesn't like the answer -- just let me finish. MR. LEOPOLD: Absolutely. I wasn't going 85 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180399 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 87 of 100 insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc... Page 61 1 MR. LEOPOLD: This is really big stuff that you're going through. But that's fine; just ask your question and move on. But do it one time. 4 If you don't understand it, I'll let you follow up, but I'm not going to allow you to ask the same question time and again and then call her a liar. 7 Just ask the question, get the answer and move to the next subject matter. 9 MR. TEIN: Ted, I'm sitting right across the table from you. 11 MR. LEOPOLD: Yes, sir. 12 MR. TEIN: Please be quiet. Don't yell. 13 MR. LEOPOLD: I will not be quiet. 14 MR. TEIN: Stop yelling. 15 MR. LEOPOLD: Lewis, when I'm yelling you'll know it. I will not -- 17 MR. TEIN: My name is not Lewis. 18 MR. LEOPOLD: I thought your first name was Lewis, Mr. Tein. 20 MR. TEIN: You watched me for three days at the evidentiary hearing where you sat in the back of the courtroom. You should know who I am. 23 MR. LEOPOLD: Well, that's the impression you must have made in the courtroom. 25 I will not be quiet. Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 87 of 316 EFTA00180400 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Document 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 89 of 100 insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 63 Q. Where were you when told this someone that you were not at the Quarterdeck Tavern? A. Eating nachos. Q. At the Quarterdeck Tavern? A. Yes. Q. What did you do so that would lie to the process servers for you? A. Nothing. Q. You just got him to lie for you, didn't you? A. No. I had no influence on him saying I wasn't there. Q. He took that upon himself? Isn't it true that Mr. Epstein's process servers had to ask the police to get you out of the restaurant so that they could serve you? MR. LEOPOLD: Objection. Lack of foundation, predicate. BY MR. TEIN: Q. You can answer the question. MR. LEOPOLD: If you know. Don't guess. THE WITNESS: No. Can you repeat the question? MR. TEIN: Don't coach. MR. LEOPOLD: Don't guess. 89 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180401 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 91 of 100 Insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 65 Q. When did you delete your MySpace page? A. A couple days ago. Q. Who told you to take your MySpace page down a couple of days ago? A. Nobody. I'm sick and tired of MySpace. Q. You all of a sudden got sick and tired of MySpace and just a few days before this deposition you decided to delete your MySpace page, correct? A. Correct. Q. Is that your testimony under oath? A. Yes. Q. Did you take your MySpace page down because you thought the government might subpoena it? A. Incorrect. Q. Hadn't your MySpace page been up for over three months before you took it down? A. Correct. But I also had made tons of MySpaces over the last years. I just get tired of them and delete them because -- drama -- and make new ones. Q. We're going to talk about that. So you deleted your MySpace page after you were already under subpoena for this deposition, correct? A. Correct. Q. What about the MySpace page didn't you want us to see, 91 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180402 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM ument 1 Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 93 of 100 insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 67 Q. And where is the one body piercing? A. Belly. Q. When did you get that? A. For my birthday, with my stepmother and my father. Q. And when was that? A. When I was 14. Q. Okay. So you had that body piercing when you met Epstein, correct? A. It might have been, or maybe that -- yeah, either my 14th birthday or my 15th. I honestly don't remember. Q. Now you've lied about your age to get into bars by using driver's licenses that aren't yours, correct? A. Incorrect. Q. Are you swearing under oath that you've never done that? A. Yes, I swear under oath. Q. And you've lied about your age to buy beer, correct? A. Incorrect. Q. You're swearing under oath that you've never lied to stores about your age? A. I've never lied to a store about my age or 93 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180403 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 95 of 100 insor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 69 Q. Now you can explain your answer. A. I know that I have seen all of these and I know that this one is mine. Can you go down? MR. LEOPOLD: Just for the record, you're pointing to the photo. THE WITNESS: I'm pointing to -- BY MR. TEIN: Q. You're pointing to the one where it says your age is 18? A. Correct. Q. That's yours, right? A. Correct. That's mine from a couple years ago that I have not been on, because I don't use that. Please keep going down, please. And I think that's it, because there's no one -- just that one is mine. Q. So the one you pointed to where it says your age is 18, that's yours, correct? A. Correct. Q. And when you wrote 18 as your age on your MySpace page, that was a lie, wasn't it? Q. Did you lie about your MySpace page back then because you couldn't post on MySpace unless you were 18? Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 95 of 316 EFTA00180404 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 97 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 71 THE WITNESS: I don't know which MySpace you're talking about. BY MR. TEIN: Q. The MySpace page that you're just pointing to, where it says you were 18. A. Yes. Q. And you were lying about your age, right? A. Uh-huh. Q. Why did you finally post your true age on your MySpace profile -- A. Uh -- Q. -- four days before you were scheduled to testify before the Grand Jury? A. I honestly don't know which MySpace, because I've had like a bazillion MySpaces, and in that year, I had two, that one and another one, and that one's been deleted. So I don't know which one you're referring to. Q. You remember that you changed your age on your MySpace page from 18 to your true age just four days before you went and testified in the Grand Jury? A. No. Q. You don't remember that. A. No. Q. Do you remember Detective Recarey? Did you 97 of 316 Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 EFTA00180405 Case 9:08-cv-80804-KAM Entered on FLSD Docket 07/21/2008 Page 99 of 100 Sensor & Associates Reporting and Transcription, Inc. Page 73 THE WITNESS: No. I'm pretty sure my dad drove me, because he was there with me. BY MR. TEIN: Q. Did any detective tell you to change your age on your MySpace page, to put your true age? A. No, sir. Q. Now you also lied on your MySpace page about your income, didn't you? A. Yes. Q. And you lied, saying that you made a quarter million dollars a year and higher, correct? A. As a joke, yes. Q. That was a lie, wasn't it? A. Yes. Q. And you also lied on your MySpace page, saying that you were married, didn't you? A. Possibly. And that might have been an error on my part. Q. Now you also lie to the police, don't you? A. No. Q. Well, you lied to the police in your tape-recorded statement that you gave to Detective Michelle Pagan three years ago, didn't you? A. To my knowledge, no, I did not. Q. Well, you lied to the police when you Ph. 561.682.0905 - Fax. 561.682.1771 1655 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd., Suite 500 - West Palm Beach, FL 33401 99 of 316