DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JUNE 15, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00126362 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE OTHER APPEARANCES: EFTA00126363 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 EFTA00126364 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 MR. : All right. Thank you, everyone. And this is an official DOJ investigation surrounding the circumstances of Jeffrey Epstein’s death, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ OIG? MR. Great. We’re just going to review the DOJ OIG voluntary interview form. going to read it for the record. It says, United States Department of Justice Office of the Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis.” “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted EFTA00126365 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnished may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or Agency disciplinary proceedings, or both.” And there is a waiver. It says, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” You can take a look at that, if you would like, and if you agree, you can sign where it says Employee’s Signature. MR. : (Indiscernible *00:02:57) copy of this. MR. : This isn't what I wanted. Do you need it? Thank you, sir, for signing. I am going to sign as the signature of the Office of the Inspector General Special Agent. And I am going to print my name. Mr. , do you EFTA00126366 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126367 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126368 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126369 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126370 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126371 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126372 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126373 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126374 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 EFTA00126375 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126376 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126377 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126378 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 directly supervises approximately 13 Lieutenants.” Does that compromise of all the Lieutenants? This was at the time. Was that all the Lieutenants at the MCC? MR. : Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, you know, when they say that, what they understand is, is that, under Correctional Services, that was probably the amount of staff that was - again - in Correctional Services, as subordinate staff. However, my direct supervision would have been over just the 13 Lieutenants. MR. : Okay. There are 13 - oh, 13 Lieutenants. Right. I thought you were saying GS-13. Gotcha. “ also sits on the Institution’s Executive Staff, which also includes the Warden. primary duty is to ensure that security protocols are met by his Lieutenants and sub-staff, and that policy guidelines are being followed, as set forth by the BOP.” EFTA00126379 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126380 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126381 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126382 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 EFTA00126383 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 EFTA00126384 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 EFTA00126385 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 MR. : Normally, due to our staffing at MCC, at that point, or at that time, we tried to ensure that, you know, looking over the roster, to try to ensure that someone was within there, the supervising unit. But again, due to the shortage of Lieutenants at that time, I had to - as monitoring, or looking at the roster - I would try to place areas of importance, so Operations Lieutenant, ensured that the Activities Lieutenants was filled. And at that time, that particular day, he wasn’t on the roster, or that post was left unassigned. EFTA00126386 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 advised that his staff provide special considerations for high-profile inmates, if deemed appropriate, and designated as such. In order to ensure an inmate is providing with proper care, the facility evaluates the inmate using several measures, including mental, physical, medical, psychological, and sexual assault victim, or predator assessments. Since different inmates are admitted with different criteria, appropriate housing varies.” EFTA00126387 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 EFTA00126388 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 EFTA00126389 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 EFTA00126390 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 MR. : At which time, I, you know, I said, hello, how you doing, Mr. Epstein? And he was, like, okay. So, he had asked me, and he said, Captain, is it okay if I get a telephone call? Now, mind you, we had already discussed that when the inmate - we would reasonably attempt to always facilitate a phone call for the inmate, especially while him being housed in the Special Housing Unit. So, I said to the Unit Manager, Mr. , I said, Mr. are you going to SHU? He said, yeah. I said, well, are you going to be able to monitor the call with the inmate? And he was, like, yeah, I got no problem with that. I said, well, I don’t have a problem. Just make sure that you follow the protocols, and the protocols is, is when that inmate is allowed to use the phone, it has to be monitored by staff, and the number, and who they’re talking to has to be placed in a log. EFTA00126391 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126392 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 EFTA00126393 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 EFTA00126394 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 EFTA00126395 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 EFTA00126396 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 EFTA00126397 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 MR. : Okay. So, who made the decision to place him in the Special Housing Unit, specifically, and why? MR. : Okay. So, basically, the rationale for placement of the inmate in the Special Housing Unit would have been a decision ultimately made by the Warden. They would have took the criteria of the inmate. They would have been, like, okay, well, what’s his risk? You know, what would be the likelihood of him being endangered if he would be placed in general population? His culpability. Can he cope while being inside of a general housing unit? So, the determinations was made between Medical, Health Services - oh, sorry - Health Services, Psychology, and the Warden. EFTA00126398 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 EFTA00126399 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 EFTA00126400 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 EFTA00126401 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:19). Apopov (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:21). I believe that - Apopov - I think that was his name, Apopov or Sopopov (Phonetic Sp. *00:34:25). These guys had made terrorist threats against the United States, or there was guys up there that had materials, or that was found in cooperation with outside Agencies that was trying to determent of (Indiscernible *00:34:43), and cause harm to the United States. These kind of guys was put in that unit. EFTA00126402 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 EFTA00126403 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 EFTA00126404 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126405 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 EFTA00126406 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 EFTA00126407 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 EFTA00126408 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 EFTA00126409 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 EFTA00126410 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126411 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 EFTA00126412 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 then, they write a brief synopsis, and then, it’s put in a packet, and then, ultimately, SIS Department will investigate it, especially if we’re having an assault, which would have been a 224 Alpha, which is a minor assault of another. So, pictures would have been taken. Clinical assessments of both inmates would have been taken. Witness statements would have been taken. All of these things would have been done, and it goes into an investigative packet. EFTA00126413 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 EFTA00126414 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 EFTA00126415 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 EFTA00126416 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 EFTA00126417 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 MR. : Former Police Officer. He had issues - because I’ve dealt with Tartaglione at Brooklyn - so, he was up on one of the Units in Brooklyn, and he had issues with those inmates in those blocks, where they’re made for people who are sex offenders. For inmates that have issues with - when they go to population - general, they can't cope. Formal law enforcement. These type of guys are in that unit. So, you don’t really have that much issues in those type of units because these guys are going to do their time, or await their sentencing, and then move on. So, you don’t really have a lot of violence. But this guy was always, always in the mix of something. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : But we couldn't put him on the general population unit, and you just can't throw him in SHU. You know what saying? Just because. You just can't. So, in Brooklyn, we had the ability to put him in - I think it was in K82. I can't remember. When he goes to MCC, you know, they don't have those EFTA00126418 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 type of units. You know? So, he would have to go in general population, or he would go to SHU. So, if the inmate fails the program and said not going to population, you can't force me. So, when you do his assessment, his Unit Team does the assessment, Psychology does their assessment, Health Services does that assessment, and say, well, hey, this guy is clear to go to GP. There’s nothing precluded him to go. But the inmate said, well, you know, a 306. 306 is refusal of programs. not going. So, put me in SHU. So, that’s how he ended up in SHU. MR. : Well, at the time, again, you would have to be mindful, we don’t - how could I put this? - inmates are not placed in cells based on race, or - but however - or gang affiliations, all of these things that, you know, but however, you vet inmates. So, you say, okay, well, you have guys up there that - EFTA00126419 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 EFTA00126420 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126421 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 looking at everything, and everything that was done, I believe so. I think that would be accurate. MR. : Okay. It says, "He was placed back on suicide watch for approximately one week." So, that happened the 23rd, and it brought him up to about July 30th. Is that correct? MR. : Of 2019. "Unlike his first and previous placement on suicide watch, Epstein now has definitive suicidal tendencies reported in his incarceration history. The staff was tasked with determining whether Epstein was in fact suicidal, or using manipulative tactics to avoid assignment of a cell mate. After suicide watch, Epstein was placed on psychological observation, and eventually returned to the SHU." Now, again, and just to go back, this Ten South thing, that didn't never - were Lieutenants bringing it to you? Like, hey, he should be on Ten South? MR. : No. MR. : You don't recall any EFTA00126422 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126423 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 EFTA00126424 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 EFTA00126425 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 EFTA00126426 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126427 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126428 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126429 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 them for court line. These guys got released. So, normally, court line is over before 4:00. So, we try to get these guys up. Do some inmates come back after 4:00? Yes, they do. But however, we don’t know if an inmate goes out to court, if they’re coming back. MR. : However, there is times when they put out a roster, and it’s given to - as far as all Correctional Officers that work the units, and it will say, court line, inmate Reyes - using him as an example - WAB. That means that he has to come downstairs with all belongings. So, if they say it, that means he’s not coming back. That’s either he’s transferring to another BOP facility, or he’s going to be released to the street. MR. : But I can guarantee you that that transfer or that roster, that inmate Reyes was on that day, it didn't say WAB. Because it would have said WAB, the first thing that that OIC should have said, that's my orange tag guy. Because I made them do all the orange tag guys, and I made them put them up on the board. EFTA00126430 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 EFTA00126431 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 EFTA00126432 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 situations with Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative, when it shows that he was trying to get things for unnecessary gain. Or he would do anything to get anything that would benefit him, we had to take some different protocols. We had to take a different - they had to take a different -- MR. : -- mindset with this guy, or the way we managed him had to change. Because we already had this guy saying that he was going to be killed, and all of this stuff, or whatever. So, we just wanted to make sure, moving forward, we put protocols in place that will protect us, as an Agency. MR. : So, speaking of protocols, was it discussed, then, when you were vetting these, hey, we have inmates constantly moving out of here, if Reyes is moved, one of these other two that were down to the three would be moved in with him? Was that discussed? MR. : No. He would just basically - because like I said, again, at MCC, you wouldn't know how long the duration on the EFTA00126433 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 EFTA00126434 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 EFTA00126435 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 EFTA00126436 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 76 EFTA00126437 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 EFTA00126438 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 EFTA00126439 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 EFTA00126440 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126441 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 Lieutenant making rounds, that’s what I would do. When I hit a unit, it wasn’t just to talk to staff. I would walk in and look at the Security protocols in the Unit. Is their fire extinguisher there? Good. Your phone work? Computers work? Hey, let’s walk the block. Pulling on doors. Pulling on food slots. Showing - trying to train the Officers. MR. : And guess what happens? You would find stuff, because people in hurry enough to go home on that evening watch, them inmates know their doors are locked. But they know they're not going to come out. Because if they come out, there's a situation. But they'll sit up there and leave it open. MR. : So, back to this, though. Can you look at the other SHU on, you know, the subsequent shifts, if you had conversations with them? EFTA00126442 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 82 EFTA00126443 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 inside of the Unit, you know, he was in charge of ensuring those Sentry rosters was updated, to ensure that the accountability of the unit was correct, to make sure that the inmates were placed in their proper cells. Who was this? sorry. Hold on. But I know that I had hit all three shifts. Meaning that, day watch. I was always up there on day watch. Evening watch. I stayed over because that’s what the Warden wanted. He told me. Hey, make sure you go and hit all three shifts. The Warden told me to do it. So, if the Warden told me to do it, why wouldn’t I go do it? EFTA00126444 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126445 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126446 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 86 EFTA00126447 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 MR. : It wasn’t saying Epstein, but I do have two. I think I gave one e-mail and one memorandum that I wrote for the 583 packet for Epstein. I think you may have that. I don't know if you have it. And then, I have wrote another one about the important of doing 30-minute rounds in the Special Housing Unit. MR. : Okay. Yeah, if you can - after we’re done - either you can send it to EFTA00126448 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126449 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126450 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126451 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 EFTA00126452 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 EFTA00126453 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126454 EFTA00126455 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 EFTA00126456 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 96 EFTA00126457 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 I mean, you would say, okay, if he’s working on evening watching or morning watch, there was no need to move inmates. There was no showers that should have been taking place. There was no hearings. No medical. Nothing that we had to open up a cell door for, for those inmates. Lieutenants. As far as - again - speaking to as Lieutenants as a forum, you know, hey, got to make sure that you guys are doing it, you know, like that. But I know for a fact, the only person that I spoke to, that I pulled in my office, was the SHU OIC. Because they're in charge of that unit. So, I EFTA00126458 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 98 EFTA00126459 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 99 EFTA00126460 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126461 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126462 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 EFTA00126463 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 when I had those teams together, yeah, I would talk about vigilance after doing 30 minute rounds. Making sure this is done. Making sure that is done. MR. : All right. And then, again, just to make sure that not misunderstanding you. You said you talked to specifically about it, but when you did visit the SHU, not only were you telling them to keep high visibility on Epstein, were you also telling them, the people that you did interact with, that he needed to have a cell mate? EFTA00126464 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 EFTA00126465 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 MR. : That’s how I did, I came up like that. trying to help you. People thought me trying to just talk to them about Correctional Services, or trying, giving them little, you know, helping them out, talking to them, you know, that I was trying to be the know-all, be-all, be that guy. You know? You know, you’re not sociable, but now you’re down here, telling us what to do. You’re not one of those. That’s the way it felt like. So, like, again, I can give you the playbook to success. But if you don’t read it, it’s just words. MR. : It’s just words. And then, I had a lot of issues with the Lieutenants. You know, Lieutenants, you know, were self-serving, even though, in my previous statement, I would never say anything statements to hurt them. not doing that. But what I’ll tell you was, the relationship between me and the Lieutenant core was not good. So, again, as we move forward through today, you know, the statements that I make is not to try to put blame or try to hurt anybody. The only thing doing is, is telling you that, when the EFTA00126466 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 EFTA00126467 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126468 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126469 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126470 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126471 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126472 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126473 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126474 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126475 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 EFTA00126476 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 EFTA00126477 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 EFTA00126478 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 EFTA00126479 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126480 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126481 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126482 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126483 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126484 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 EFTA00126485 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126486 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 MR. : So, if you can't clear the count, where is the inmate? The inmate went out. But it's now 4:00. But I did say that sometimes inmates don't come back on the 4:00. So, they call that "ghosting." Supposedly, he's supposed to be at court. But did you get a count slip from court? No. When he leaves out of the institution, that's on them. So, that means the institution number should have came down minus one. EFTA00126487 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 EFTA00126488 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 EFTA00126489 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 EFTA00126490 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 EFTA00126491 EFTA00126492 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126493 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126494 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 EFTA00126495 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 135 EFTA00126496 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126497 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126498 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 EFTA00126499 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126500 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 EFTA00126501 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126502 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 EFTA00126503 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 receipt signed by the Marshals by the staff that was at the New York court over there, the people that handle the inmates, that transfer order should have been sent back with whoever was transporting the inmates, and brought back to the institution to say that this guy never came back. MR. : So, that third page that you’re saying, though, that that was a violation that the Operations Lieutenant didn't sign? MR. : So, what the Lieutenants are supposed to do on their shift, is supposed to, when they make rounds in Control, they’re suppose - because we’re supposed to take a count on every shift. Especially in the off-hours. So, before Epstein, that was a responsibility. On the off-hours, you will be responsible for taking the count. So, that EFTA00126504 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 EFTA00126505 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 have been the OIC, then the person who actually was there as a Lieutenant that was taking the count, normally we would sign it in red. EFTA00126506 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126507 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 147 EFTA00126508 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126509 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 149 EFTA00126510 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 EFTA00126511 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126512 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126513 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126514 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 EFTA00126515 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 155 talked about the timeframe that goes between the 30-minute rounds. So, like, let’s say it’s 11:00. You should do a round somewhere between 11:00 and 11:30. You understand? MR. : If it’s done at 11:29, that’s fine. But you should be doing it within that 30-minutes because it has to be irregular. So, you can't put on there and said, I did rounds at 11:00, 11:30. MR. : 12:00, 12:30. You know, you can't do it like that. So, let's say, you know, you're feeding up there, you're up here feeding, but that round is not going to be because you're not monitoring, you're doing a service. Just because you're on the range, that means you did a round. A round is physically stopping what you're doing. So, if feeding during the time it's supposed to, supposed to do a round, secure the slot, I go to the beginning of the range. One, two, five, seven, nine, 11, whatever, whatever, whatever. Document the time I did the round. Then go back to feeding. It's not while up EFTA00126516 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 EFTA00126517 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 157 EFTA00126518 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 158 EFTA00126519 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126520 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126521 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 161 EFTA00126522 EFTA00126523 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 163 EFTA00126524 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 164 EFTA00126525 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 165 EFTA00126526 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 166 EFTA00126527 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126528 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126529 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126530 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 EFTA00126531 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126532 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 172 MR. : -- besides the inmate - it’s three things - an inmate died, your count being off, or an inmate escaping. Those are the big things right there. If your count is bad because that’s what we get paid to do - we’re the masters of count, that’s what we do, accountability of inmates, in a Correctional setting. That’s what you do. That’s what you’re paid for. So, you call me, as a Lieutenant, and you tell me, hey, LT., we keep counting the unit, and the unit, and the count is bad. So, the next thing going to tell you, give me some staff up there. I want a standup bed book. MR. : So, what if they say, we’re off by one, but we know where that one is? That one is over there. And then, the Lieutenant responds -- EFTA00126533 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 173 EFTA00126534 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 174 So, the policy is, the Lieutenant is on there, going to watch you do it, and so, that’s the second count. The third count is the standing bed book count. That I used the bed book cards, and I go cell by cell, and I make the inmates say their name and number, and I physically identify them by their face. MR. : If that don’t work, all of this stuff is supposed to be annotated in the log, that bad count one, bad count two, SHU reports bad count three. Bed book count was identified. The next thing would have been, was to go back through the prior counts to see of the movement, of who was in or out, because if your count cleared here, at 10:00, you only had one out of the unit, which was Epstein. When he came back, that means your count should have went from - if it was 72 here - that’s telling me that it must have been 71. At boom. So, it was 76 -- MR. : Is that the 4:00 . count? MR. : -- yeah. It was 76. Then, at the 10:00 count, on the 9:30 count, it was 73. So, where did those three inmates go? EFTA00126535 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 175 EFTA00126536 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 176 1. done inside of a unit, like SHU, the OIC is supposed to do it. If a Case Manager and Unit Manager, or a Counselor, moves the inmate on the unit, guess what? They’re supposed to make that Sentry - (Indiscernible *00:35:49) PP-34 transaction in Sentry to make the appropriate move. EFTA00126537 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 177 MR. . . all right. Let’s keep going on this. Thank you for that. That’s hugely helpful. So, “Inmates’ cell mates are moved for various reasons, including but not limited to an incident in the cell, visits to court, legal library, medical, and recreation. On Friday, August 9, 2019, Epstein’s cell mate, Reyes, had court. It would not be uncommon for Reyes to be out of his cell for an extended period. Epstein had an Attorney session that day. Epstein’s Attorney was processed into the facility in the morning, and Epstein was brought down to the Attorney room.” And you said that that was pretty much seven days a week? With Epstein. “was not notified EFTA00126538 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 178 EFTA00126539 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 179 MR. : I would have probably put him - if he was already - if I would have known, between those hours of 1:50 to 4:00, I would say, keep him in the Attorney conference, because guess what? I've got a staff member right there. And where he was, there's a room here, so we normally kept him in these first two rooms. So, you could see him. So, I would just say, hey, just have somebody stay there, and I would have hired somebody. I would have EFTA00126540 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 180 EFTA00126541 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 181 EFTA00126542 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126543 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 183 EFTA00126544 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 184 EFTA00126545 EFTA00126546 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126547 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 187 EFTA00126548 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126549 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126550 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 190 EFTA00126551 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 191 EFTA00126552 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126553 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 193 SHU, 30-minute rounds need to be completed consistently, at non-uniform intervals, within a 40-minute timeframe. The purpose of these rounds is to ensure that good order is being maintained, there is no suspicious activity, and all inmates are accounted for and responsive. 30-minute rounds are documenting in TRUSCOPE, which serves as an electronic logbook. After a round is physically done, the Correctional Officer can log into TRUSCOPE and press a button, certifying that the round was completed. Unfortunately, sometimes Officers do not complete a 30-minute round or exceed the 40-minute threshold. TRUSCOPE also documents from what location, terminal the rounds are logged.” MR. : That’s right. MR. : “ is aware of at least two terminals located in the SHU. The only way to determine if a 30-minute round was physically completed is to check the video surveillance footage.” EFTA00126554 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 194 EFTA00126555 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 195 EFTA00126556 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 196 EFTA00126557 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 197 EFTA00126558 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 198 EFTA00126559 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 199 EFTA00126560 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126561 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126562 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126563 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 203 EFTA00126564 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126565 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 205 EFTA00126566 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 206 EFTA00126567 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126568 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 208 EFTA00126569 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 209 EFTA00126570 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 210 EFTA00126571 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126572 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126573 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126574 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 214 EFTA00126575 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 215 EFTA00126576 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126577 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 217 EFTA00126578 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 218 EFTA00126579 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 219 going to be honest - if a third party, looking at this, somebody would say, wrong. They would say, you failed to supervise your staff. You should have been auditing all of the paperwork. You should have been more responsive, or you should have been more responsible, and been in the unit more. You should have done more rounds. You should have did more training. You understand what saying? MR. : But guess what? That’s not my purview. As the Captain, Security, I did this, this, that, and the third. But everybody has a job to do in a prison. MR. : The Officers have a job, to count, maintain accountability, for the inmate population. The Lieutenants all oversee the staff, and make sure they’re doing their jobs right. And then, ultimately, me as the Captain, over the Lieutenants, I have to reassure that they’re doing their jobs right. But when you go back and you start going through fine tooth combingthrough documents EFTA00126580 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 220 that you thinking that, you know, your staff are doing the right thing, and now you finding out that people are fudging documents, and creating documents that - or counting inmates that wasn’t in the institution. EFTA00126581 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126582 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126583 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126584 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 224 EFTA00126585 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126586 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126587 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 227 EFTA00126588 EFTA00126589 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 229 EFTA00126590 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126591 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126592 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 232 EFTA00126593 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126594 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 234 EFTA00126595 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 235 EFTA00126596 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 236 EFTA00126597 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126598 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 238 by the time he comes down the tier, and he comes through - so, that means he didn't do a round, because he would have saw him. Right? So, that means he's going around, because that's how feed, as soon as we come on, we don't go this way. We go this way. So, that cell that Epstein was found in, I think it's, like, the second from the in. And so, it’s, like, the last cell, and then he was in that next cell. Right? So, they come around the whole area, and when he get to his cell, you observe the inmate unresponsive. So, what you're supposed to do is, you call Control. Control, hey, I've got an unresponsive inmate. Send staff to SHU. Or I've got an unresponsive inmate, please state the medical emergency, send someone to SHU. to Ops, hey, I need you come to the Special Housing Unit. Boom. You come up there. You've got a staff because you don't know if it's a rouse. You just popped down the door and just go in there. You're putting yourself in jeopardy. MR. : Now, does this create suspicion for you, the fact that he went in there by himself? EFTA00126599 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 239 EFTA00126600 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126601 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 241 EFTA00126602 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 242 say, oh, I don't have access to TRUSCOPE, but however, they are given hard copies of the count slip, which continues for the 24-hour period. MR. : So, you’re continuing to do your rounds. And then, at the end of the rounds, at the end of the week, this is how it’s supposed to happen. Because I actually put this in place, because that was one of the vitals that we had during our program review, which we got a hit on. At the end of the week, the Lieutenant is supposed to get them, and he will audit them, to make every sure all of your rounds was conducted in the 40-minutes irregular. If it’s not, that staff member is identified, and then, they’re given counseling. So, we’re trying to stop staff, you know, we try to encourage staff to do the right thing, but if they’re not, we’re trying to catch it on our level, before it gets reported out. So, even then, you know, the Lieutenants there was sign put up there that it wasn’t getting done on a regular basis. MR. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00126603 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 243 EFTA00126604 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 244 EFTA00126605 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 245 EFTA00126606 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 246 would be the Institutional - or 14s - would be the Institutional Duty Officer. Right? So, that means they go around, and they check all of the institutional - that they’re taking calls after hours, from Correctional Services. They’re reporting certain stuff to the Region. They’re doing rounds in SHU. They’re doing rounds throughout the institution, in all the areas of the institution, and the accumulated report, which is given to the Warden for their review, about the daily operations of the institution during that week. Also, a part of that is SHU rounds. You know, they make sure that SHU rounds, everybody that’s supposed to do rounds within a week, you have to do them, or you get notified, and then you notify that Thursday or Friday, and you’re supposed to go do your rounds. By the close out. You only have to do it there once a week. So, that’s just part of the duties. But they bring the report, they create a report of the total operations. Any incidents that occurred. The counts in SHU, if they was bad. Anything that was going on in Food Service, or if they observed certain instances during the - in EFTA00126607 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 247 EFTA00126608 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 248 EFTA00126609 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 249 EFTA00126610 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 250 MR. : -- and she never - she was supposed to go to the Control Center, and actually do the counts from there, right? MR. : Well, you’re supposed to take - yeah - one of the counts. So, normally, we would take the 3:45 count or the 5:00. Either one. You could take one of the counts. It don’t matter which one you take. You’ve just got to take one. The 12:00, the 3:00, or the 5:00. Right? You’ve got to take a count. You’ve got to go through, go do a round in SHU. A round in SHU. So, you have to go, actually, go physically to the unit. And then, you’re supposed to do rounds throughout the entire institution. So, if at the Lieutenant’s desk, and I say that all my rounds was done from this one terminal, because you’re actually supposed to go in, I provide it in card readers. EFTA00126611 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126612 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 252 EFTA00126613 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 253 EFTA00126614 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 254 EFTA00126615 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 255 EFTA00126616 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126617 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 257 MR. : It specifies to a - because I can't say the Operations, the Activities, the Admin. No. A Lieutenant. So, that's why we get by on day watch because you have the assigned Lieutenant in the unit, that's going to make the said round. EFTA00126618 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 258 MR. □: And when she made that round, she just sees the person, she doesn't have to talk to them? MR. : You walk around, and if it’s at night, you’re going to take and shine your light in there, because you’re not doing a count. So, as Correctional Officers, you know, over the years, you’re taught to look at certain things in a cell. When I shine that light in there, shining, I make sure, because normally inmates will move their foot or move their leg, or arm, or leg, so I would count flesh when I see flesh. I could check the windows real quick, or if they got stuff in hanging, that’s restricting my view, I could correct it at that time, hey, take that down, hey you, so and so, get up, take the covering down. That’s doing an effective round. And you do that for every cell in the block. MR. : What about when the SHU Lieutenant is on duty, is he the one that's doing the rounds? MR. : Yeah. No. No, no. Officers are doing the rounds. So, when he does his rounds, it’s normally with a status report. EFTA00126619 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126620 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126621 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126622 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126623 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 263 EFTA00126624 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 264 EFTA00126625 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 265 EFTA00126626 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 266 EFTA00126627 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 267 EFTA00126628 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126629 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 269 staff. The AW read it. just looking at all of the Lieutenants. Lieutenant read it. The Warden read it. (Indiscernible *01:47:41) read it. So, yeah, there was a few Lieutenants that actually read it. EFTA00126630 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126631 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126632 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 272 EFTA00126633 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 273 to call a male and a female answered the phone, if that meant, is so and so available? No. Then he wouldn't have gotten - been able to speak to the female person that answered the phone. No. MR. : Basically, inmates are supposed to supply certain people their supposed to call. So, like, on their phone list, there’s certain people that we vet, that the inmates can call. So, normally, it’s, like, over in - a religious person, your immediate family members, a girlfriend, a wife, a spouse, children, stuff like that, past or whatever. But then, legally, if your legal contact or your Attorney, it’s different. You know, you can - that’s a totally different type of call. Outside of what the inmates get. Like, if they pick up the commissary phone, and EFTA00126634 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 274 MR. : You know what saying? The proof form is the green form. But over here, they say, well, I need to speak to my Attorney. Okay, I’ll give you the Attorney call. But if that was the case, he could have been afforded or given, if he was calling his mother, if he had time on the books, because he went back to his cell prior to - I think the cell, the SHU, the cell, the phones in SHU cut off at 9:00 not certain. I can't remember. He could have called his mother at that time. And we wouldn’t have had to facilitate the call. He could have called her right from the thing. MR. : So, I just want to - should have checked that list before he made that phone call? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Okay. And the last question is, if the order came from Psych, right? - It was just a question - if the order came from Psych, that Epstein needed a cell mate, should they have come down to the Unit and made sure EFTA00126635 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 275 MR. : Okay. So, what would have happened is, if he would have been released because she would put that out. So, if the inmate was being released from suicide watch, prior for him being released from suicide watch, that would have went to the exec staff, that would have went to the SHU OIC, the Operations Lieutenant, to inform him that he needs - before place him in SHU - he needs to have an appropriate cell mate. Not a vetted one. Just someone because of what the SHU policy says, that an inmate must have a cell mate. MR. □: Okay, but it's on -- MR. □: But it doesn't say a vetted cell mate. It doesn't say all these protocols. But with her, that's a general statement that EFTA00126636 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 276 EFTA00126637 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 277 MR. : I mean, with , I believe that it was the issue with the log. I think it was a log issue that we had talked about, that when I pulled up the initial log, after I got there, when I pulled up the Lieutenant’s log, it appeared that it was two different logs in the system. And then, within 45 minutes, one log had disappeared out of the system, and then, I see her leaving at about 9:15 . out of the building. I don't know where she was in the building, but at 9:15 ., she comes walking out of the building. And I reported that to OIG when I talked to them. I talked to them about that log being -- MR. : And what was the log? EFTA00126638 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 278 EFTA00126639 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126640 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126641 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 281 EFTA00126642 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00126643 EFTA00126644 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 284 EFTA00126645 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 285 ## CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00126646