DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OCTOBER 27, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00119019 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119020 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119021 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119022 EFTA00119023 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119024 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. It says, “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure, and security failure.” And this is what we are writing for everyone that we speak to, just because we’re looking at it as a -happened. "This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you chose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceedings, or both." And there is a waiver section. It says, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing EFTA00119025 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 EFTA00119026 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119027 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 signing as the signature of the Office of the Inspector General, Special Agent. I'm printing my name. EFTA00119028 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119029 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 EFTA00119030 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119031 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119032 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 EFTA00119033 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 No. Okay. Fair enough. After the incident occurred, what was your role with determining what happened and what didn't happen after Epstein was found on August 10th, 2019? MR. : Well, I responded to the institution. At the time, when I got there, he was at the hospital. So, I didn't go up to the unit, as far as - because it was a crime scene, and I've always been trained, if it was a crime scene, if you weren't particularly there, the least amount of people that, you know, that go through that crime scene, just don't go into it. So, I didn't go into it, but you know, basically gathering information on what happened, notifying the region, notifying the FBI. The IG. MR. HAYES: (Indiscernible *00:09:28). He's already got that phone call. MR. : Oh. MR. HAYES: Oh, yeah, you know what I mean? Jeffrey Epstein -- EFTA00119034 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119035 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119036 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 EFTA00119037 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 EFTA00119038 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119039 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119040 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 EFTA00119041 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 EFTA00119042 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 EFTA00119043 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 EFTA00119044 EFTA00119045 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 EFTA00119046 29 EFTA00119047 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 EFTA00119048 EFTA00119049 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 MR. : So, what I wanted to know is, and I guess, would you like me just to refresh your memory, to really quickly read what she said happened, so we can figure out what it is that didn't happen? MR. : Okay. Yeah. MR. : All right. So, this is subject, "Possible suicide attempt." Again, July 23rd, 2019. It says, "On July -". Let me just sit back so you can just kind of read along with me. Would you mind if I sit next to you? MR. : I'm vaccinated, just so you know. It says, "On July 23rd, 2019, at approximately 1:27 a.m., a call for assistance on the Special Housing Unit was announced by the control center. Upon my arrival, I was informed that an inmate had attempted suicide and proceeded to cell Z05-124LAD. I observed inmate Epstein, Jeffrey, number 76318-054, EFTA00119050 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 lying in the fetal position on the floor of his cell, wearing a t-shirt and boxers. He was breathing heavily, and was snoring. I called out to inmate Epstein and observed him flicker his eyes, and continued snoring. His neck was red with no abrasions. I observed no further injuries to his person. An attempt was made to get the inmates, to get the inmate to stand on his own, with negative results. The inmate was placed in hand restraints, and staff was directed to retrieve the stretcher. As inmate Epstein was being placed on the stretcher by responding staff, he would open his eyes and observe staff. When staff made eye contact with him, he would hurriedly shut his eyes. The inmate was taken to HA-Unit.” Was it that? The health care? MR. : Health. Health Services. MR. : "Dressed in a suicide smock, and placed on suicide watch. While awaiting the arrival of an inmate companion, inmate Epstein sat on the of the bed and began moving forward, as if was attempting to fall over, head first. When I looked away, he straightened up. As I turned to look at him EFTA00119051 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 again, he attempted the same act. I laid him down on the bed, and directed him to cease his action or he would be placed in restraints for his safety. At that moment, he stated, 'Okay. I won't do it again.' And gave the thumbs up. Because of his unpredictable behavior, the decision was made to have the staff member observe inmate Epstein. I had left HA-Unit in order to make staff notifications. Moments later, I spoke with Officer , who stated that Inmate Epstein was alert and had indicated that his cellmate, Tartaglione, Nicholas, number 78514-054, had attempted to kill him, and had been harassing him. He stated that the inmate had indicated that he had informed his attorney of this matter. I photographed and spoke with inmate Tartaglione, Nicholas, who stated that he was asleep with his headphones on when he felt something hit his legs, and said, `What are you doing?’ He didn't answer. So, he got up, turned on the light,” or - so, yeah - “He got up, turned on the light, and saw him with a string around his neck. EFTA00119052 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 He stated that he then called the guards, and they ran down. Upon further questioning, inmate Tartaglione stated that he sleeps on the bottom bunk, but gave it to inmate Epstein because he’s old. He stated that he sleeps on the floor, on a mattress. He stated that, when he got up, he couldn’t remember if he sat up or stood up to check on Epstein. He stated that Epstein was sitting on the floor, leaning to the side, with his eyes opened, but wasn’t responding. He stated that the last time he saw him, he was snoring really loud. Inmate Epstein stated that he comes in from a legal visit at approximately 8:00 p.m., and staff handed him a copy of the Ddaily Nnews. Nick was on the floor reading the Ddaily Nnews. He stated that he had given it to him. He stated that Tartaglione mentioned that he had been in court all day, in Westchester (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:00), and was carrying on. At that point, inmate Tartaglione paused, as if he was making the story up, as he went along, and stated that Tartaglione stated, `These fucking N-I-G-G-E-R-S. This place is` EFTA00119053 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 inhumane. I wish I could report it. Officer, that N-I-G-G-E-R, hobbit motherfucker.’ He then turned to a page in the Daily News that had his picture on it, and stated that Epstein was worth 77 million dollars. Epstein then stated that he took his picture, balled it up, and threw it in the garbage. I asked inmate Epstein what happened prior to staff's arrival. He stated that at approximately 1:00 a.m., he had gotten up to get a drink of water, as he gets up every 30 minutes. He remembered walking back to his bunk, and waking up with staff there, in his cell. I asked if he had waken up and seen staff, why didn't he respond when we were calling out to him. He stated that he only remembered hearing himself making a noise like snoring. When asked about the allegations against his cellmate, he stated that he was told if he hurt him, staff wouldn’t care. Duty medical -” how do you pronounce that name? EFTA00119054 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 notified and briefed. It was determined that no further medical attention was needed. A medical assessment was not conducted at the time of this incident, due to the fact there was no medical staff available after 10:00 p.m. Upon their arrival of medical staff, inmate Epstein was examined and treated by .” "For a circular line of arrythmia, at the base of his neck. One section on the front, with marks of friction, and a small arrythmia on his left knee." So, sorry that that was so lengthy. But so, again, the question would be, is this, is this, does anything in here strike you as inaccurate? says that in the attached memo, "The information I received is not what I was told happened." Do you know what she is referring to? MR. : I think she - if I recall - that she told, that said that it was an attempted suicide, but then she got any EFTA00119055 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 EFTA00119056 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 EFTA00119057 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119058 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 EFTA00119059 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 EFTA00119060 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 start your shift, your start off, you know, you’re putting your name, if you are relieved, or you assume suicide watch. EFTA00119061 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 EFTA00119062 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119063 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 EFTA00119064 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 EFTA00119065 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119066 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119067 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 same thing we just looked at? This looks like, again, it says, "Inmate companion assumed duties from staff on 7/23/19, at 7:00 until 7/24/19, at 8:45 a.m. Epstein was transferred to psych observation on 7/24/2019, at 8:45 a.m. until 7/30/2019 at 8:15 a.m. Inmate companion was utilized." MR. : Yeah. It just says, you know, (Indiscernible *00:39:01), let me see. You got category. I don't know what the MDS is, but typically, it's an assignment. Like, I could put in and do a PP-37 and say where he was housed at. So, I could put quarters. So, this must be a medical term. Concerning his medical status. EFTA00119068 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 EFTA00119069 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 EFTA00119070 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 EFTA00119071 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119072 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 EFTA00119073 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 EFTA00119074 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119075 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 EFTA00119076 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 EFTA00119077 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. : So, we weren’t able to get a whole lot of people, you know, think that how we could house him to be safe. Tartaglione was a white male. Another high-profile case. So, and he is not, you know, there is this misconception that he was a big hulking bodyguard, but he lost over 100 something pounds. So, he was smaller in stature and frame. So, we said that would have been an appropriate cellmate for him. EFTA00119078 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119079 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 EFTA00119080 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 EFTA00119081 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119082 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119083 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119084 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119085 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119086 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119087 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119088 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 Okay. Do you mind initialing? And do you know why that would be? MR. : Hold on. If an inmate is cleared off of - so, and you have to talk them about it - but most inmates didn't, once you are cleared off of suicide watch, they have other things that they do. You can come down and they give you some (Indiscernible *00:54:42) coping courses to take. So, they have other types of therapy, but it doesn't necessarily have to be entered in as a medical encounter. MR. : Okay. So, this is, so, psychology could have been still meeting with them, just not noted as a medical encounter? MR. : Yeah. You - I mean - you see them, and you can just, like, if you have patients, you will go, how is everything going? You doing all right? Yeah. I'm fine. I'm okay. So, it doesn't have to be noted as a medical encounter. MR. : Okay. So, your involvement with this, being that he came off of psychological observation on July 30th, should psychology had interacted with him more EFTA00119089 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 EFTA00119090 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 EFTA00119091 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 EFTA00119092 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119093 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119094 EFTA00119095 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119096 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 EFTA00119097 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 did not report any medical, or any mental health concerns, and he denied any suicidal thoughts or intention. He was asking the writer to go to general population and was making requests for various leads he had at the time. He wanted social calls without them being on a speaker phone. He wanted a book he had left in the suicide watch area. His mood was not depressed or anxious. There were no signs of stress. He had planned on meeting with his attorneys to work on his legal situation.” So, there is that. And then, there is also, I don't know if this was attached. I don’t know how this was printed, but it also looks like all the contacts. It says, “15 contacts in one month. Starting on July 6, 2019, when Epstein arrived. And after the -”. It does say that there was a contact that looks like, on the 31st. MR. HAYES: What does he mean by “contact”? MR. : A psychology contact. MR. HAYES: Okay. MR. : And then, here’s one, 8/1/2019. Dr. SBA was -- EFTA00119098 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119099 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119100 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 EFTA00119101 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 84 EFTA00119102 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 85 EFTA00119103 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 86 EFTA00119104 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 87 EFTA00119105 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119106 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 89 EFTA00119107 EFTA00119108 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119109 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 EFTA00119110 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 93 was it discussed at all that he be placed on Ten South, for the high, you know, the SAMs inmates? MR. : So, here’s the problems with Ten South. It’s the terrorist unit, and there’s SAMS things in there. The amount of attorneys he had coming in there, we couldn’t have those attorneys coming up to that unit every day, and, you know, breaching the security of it, and then, tying up the movement in there, because when an attorney comes in there. Now, those guys get attorneys, but it’s planned, and they are in there. Epstein’s attorneys were coming in early in the morning, and weren’t leaving until late at night. And it was about four or five of them. So -- MR. HAYES: And guess who's paying his bill? MR. : -- right. That’s not an appropriate unit, and that’s not what that unit is for. MR. : Now, what about, like, if, you know, an El Chapo (Phonetic Sp. *01:11:55), or some of the other high levels that weren't terrorists, how did they deal with EFTA00119111 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 EFTA00119112 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 EFTA00119113 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 96 EFTA00119114 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 EFTA00119115 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119116 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 99 EFTA00119117 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119118 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 EFTA00119119 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 EFTA00119120 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 EFTA00119121 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119122 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119123 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 EFTA00119124 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 have you just initial and date. I'm going to place this, again, here, just in case we need to reference it, and again, it's just if we need to look at who was working, and what position -- disclosure, but just so that we have both. The August 9th one was something that you had sent. All right. Since Epstein was required to have a cellmate, who was ultimately responsible to make sure that all the SHU staff were aware of this requirement? EFTA00119125 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119126 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 EFTA00119127 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119128 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119129 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 EFTA00119130 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 MR. HAYES: And I had a wild eyed crush on Cameron Diaz, and this is the shiv, the knife seriously - I found the guy who made the knife that she carried in the show, and I said, I want you to make me an exact duplicate. How EFTA00119131 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119132 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 EFTA00119133 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119134 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 117 EFTA00119135 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119136 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119137 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 EFTA00119138 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119139 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119140 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119141 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 EFTA00119142 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119143 EFTA00119144 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119145 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 EFTA00119146 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119147 EFTA00119148 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119149 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119150 EFTA00119151 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 EFTA00119152 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119153 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 136 EFTA00119154 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119155 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 EFTA00119156 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119157 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 EFTA00119158 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 EFTA00119159 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 EFTA00119160 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119161 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 EFTA00119162 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 EFTA00119163 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 146 MR. HAYES: Okay. Let me just take a look, just so I have, my mind is clear. There is a prisoner’s schedule. The prisoner’s schedule literally means prisoner’s schedule. MR. : Well, yeah. So, the prisoner’s schedule report is something like this, but it will tell you that they are either going to, like, transfer, or they are going to go to court. Whereas this other document that was sent to R&D was just specifically about the transfer. 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MR. : So, what happens is, on the EFTA00119187 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 EFTA00119188 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 171 EFTA00119189 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 172 EFTA00119190 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 173 EFTA00119191 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 174 EFTA00119192 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 175 EFTA00119193 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 176 EFTA00119194 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 177 EFTA00119195 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119196 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119197 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119198 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 181 EFTA00119199 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 182 EFTA00119200 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 183 EFTA00119201 EFTA00119202 EFTA00119203 EFTA00119204 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 187 EFTA00119205 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119206 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 189 EFTA00119207 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119208 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 191 EFTA00119209 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119210 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 193 EFTA00119211 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119212 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 195 EFTA00119213 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119214 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 197 EFTA00119215 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 198 EFTA00119216 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119217 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 200 MR. : There should have been a count slip for him over there. So, what should have happened was, the inmate - him - he should have been outcounted in R&D. And then, the R&D, you would have seen one. So, there was a count slip. Whoever is sitting and watching him should have did a count slip on him. And then, whoever his back up was should have done a count slip. I don’t want to put my words into mouth, but let me know if this makes sense to you. It says, “Count discrepancy on the August 9th, 2019. Per the daily activity report dated August 10th, 2019, and the attachment lieutenant log from August 9th, 2019.” So, that’s what we are looking at here. EFTA00119218 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 201 5:00 a.m. E1 institution count, respective ZA SHU count slips, eyes on count shows 77. At 8:38 a.m., inmate Reyes is pre-removed from ZA for count, and taken off the lieutenant log. The accurate ZA SHU count moves down to 76. Reyes was removed from the institution and does not - and should not - appear on any counts at this time. At 3:15 p.m., inmate Fernandez was placed on RA dry cell from ZA, which moves the accurate ZA count down to 75 on the lieutenant log. The 4:00 p.m. E1 shows a total of 76 inmates assigned to ZA.” With one in attorney conference, which was Epstein. “This indicates that Fernandez was not keyed out of the SHU, and keyed into RA. The ZA eyes on count slip shows 75. Inaccurate. It should have reflected 74 because, although there were 75 inmates assigned to the SHU, Epstein was in attorney conference. There were no inmates assigned to RA on the E1 institutional count, and there was no count slip for RA, eyes on count.” This is where the problem begins. MR. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00119219 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 202 EFTA00119220 EFTA00119221 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 204 EFTA00119222 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119223 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119224 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 207 EFTA00119225 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 208 EFTA00119226 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119227 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119228 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 211 of things went wrong this day. So, we need to figure out why these things went wrong. So, this is -. Let me just make sure, before we move on, that I got everything. All right? So, first, before we get into rounds, when a lieutenant conducts a round in the SHU -- MR. : -- are they required to conduct a round of the inmates going up and down the different tiers, or does the round consist of just checking in with the officers to make sure everything is okay? MR. : Well, you check the officer to make sure they are all right, and you check the documentation. So, you check, you know, you edit, you would have to review the post orders also. To state what their duties are. I mean, all of us had different, you know, I was a lieutenant, so it was different things you did, but I always checked the 292s, to make sure, you know, the officers checked off, you know, if the person ate or not. Any medical. I would check to see if medical came up. So, it would factor and depend on what shift you went on. You know, the day shift, the inmates EFTA00119229 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 212 are up, so you’re going, you know, you can go around. Evening shift, you can see what’s going on. The midnight shift, they’re sleeping. But you are definitely checking a 30-minute log, to see if the inmates are doing their 30-minute checks. And, you know, just documentation. MR. : Now, as the warden, did you expect your lieutenants, though, to go down range when they were doing their lieutenant visits in the SHU? Their rounds. And this is specifically when they are, like, signing off on the different, like, on, as you can see, this is what I'm going to be showing you. These are round sheets that EFTA00119230 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 213 EFTA00119231 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119232 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119233 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119234 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 217 EFTA00119235 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 218 EFTA00119236 219 EFTA00119237 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 220 EFTA00119238 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 221 EFTA00119239 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119240 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119241 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119242 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 225 EFTA00119243 EFTA00119244 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 227 know, and you typically do it, like on certain days when the guys are going out to take a shower, you might go out and do that. 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But if there is discrepancies and things are going on in that department of correctional services, we have what we call perpetual audits, which he maintained the records of, and that is another checks and balance where you would find out if something is wrong. All right. So, the fact that this is, we are talking about, like, ten or 11 days, there is a good chance that they weren’t done during that time period? Or do you know when they would be done? Are they done, like, on a certain date? MR. : It’s - and I don't know when the dates of the quarter starts - but that is to your checks and balance. You know -- EFTA00119264 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 247 EFTA00119265 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 248 EFTA00119266 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119267 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 250 EFTA00119268 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 251 1. other shifts, you, you know, walk around, see 2. what’s going on. EFTA00119269 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 252 EFTA00119270 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119271 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE MR. : See, that’s hard. I mean, to say you would discipline. There is a difference between what is written down, and what you need to be doing. I mean, if you are coming in, and I enter there as a supervisor, I want to see what’s going around the unit. I might ask the officer, all right, do we have any problems. The inmates, when you come on, hey, they know the lieutenants on, hey, lieutenant, I need to talk to you. So, you are going down the ranges. You know, so, when you are going down the range, you are seeing something. You get to another range. The inmate said, hey, I need to talk to you. So, it is something you should be doing as part of your rounds, and going up into SHU. Just EFTA00119272 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 255 EFTA00119273 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 256 any unit you walk on, you want to see what is going on in the unit. So, do I want to use the word “sound correctional judgement”? You know, just to see, as a supervisor, what is going on. I mean, you have some people that go above and beyond. And then, do their job, and you have some people that want to do the bareear minimum. But that is something -- MR. HAYES: You do the rounds. Does that mean literally walk up and down this, what we, what I would call the cell block? MR. : Yeah. You walk around the unit. You know, you are interacting with inmates. You are talking to inmates. Same thing with the inmates in SHU. You know, you are walking around. Hey, what’s going on? MR. : So, what you are not familiar with is the way the SHU is set up. EFTA00119274 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 257 EFTA00119275 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 258 EFTA00119276 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119277 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119278 EFTA00119279 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119280 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 263 EFTA00119281 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 264 EFTA00119282 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 265 EFTA00119283 EFTA00119284 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 267 EFTA00119285 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 268 MR. -- what I do is, I walk around and I go to every cell, and I talk to the guy, got any issues, any problems? They’re, like, no, I'm good. You might have some that say, hey, I'm up here for an investigation. Why am I here? Why am I up here? So, I take my little notes. Okay. Fine. Some of it I can address right there, some of it I can't. But I would typically walk around what we call is the SHU roster. Which, that is the reason why you are up there. Why am I up here? And, you know, a lot of times, you go by it, it says -- MR. HAYES: It’s because you are a fucking mass murderer, that’s why you’re up here. MR. : -- and, like, you know why you are locked up. And then, they would say, well, how come the investigation is taking so long? And it would depend. If the FBI had it, if it was an OIG investigation. It would depend. So, you know, I would usually tell them, like, you know, it’s an outside agency handling. We are in contact with them. And EFTA00119286 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 269 EFTA00119287 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 270 I would go on the off shifts, you know, to see the staff, but it's -- MR. HAYES: It’s a surprise. In other words, you are not telling them you are coming, you are just going. MR. : Yeah. I'm coming up. I'm making my rounds. I'm sitting, talking to staff. What's your issues? I mean, it's more the issue of them just work. I mean -. MR. : So, when you say there’s nothing in writing, saying that you should do it, or is there something in writing saying these people that didn't do it, that they should have done it? MR. No. And there could be reasons. Now, they - and this is what I would get the report and look into - like, there are people that make the rounds, they come up to SHU but they forget to sign in. MR. : So, when I get the report, I would, you know, talk to the captain, that this the entrance log, and say, hey, why didn't such and such make a round? Now, that AW might have been out that week, and I had this one covering EFTA00119288 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 271 EFTA00119289 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119290 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119291 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 274 EFTA00119292 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 275 EFTA00119293 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 276 EFTA00119294 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 277 there, that I guess, and on the outside of the cell, they would have his name and the other person. Then you should be saying, okay, where is the cellmate? We know he’s not in the attorney room. MR. : So, you know he’s down in the attorney room. So, you would have said, okay, somebody’s got to be in that cell. MR. HAYES: Hmm. Ace bastard. That’s a way to fuck with the other guys. MR. : Meaning, if they actually did the rounds and the counts like they were supposed to, there was more than enough time for them to turn around and assign another cellmate, if needed. MR. : Or to say, of course, to your point, where they are saying that nobody ever told them, if you were making your rounds, you would have saw that there was nobody in that cell, and then ask you a question, where he’s at. MR. HAYES: And the person whose job it is EFTA00119295 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 278 EFTA00119296 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 279 MR. : When he says pre-filling, what he is saying is that, the beginning of their shift, they are going in and they are just writing, they are initialing and putting in the time. At the very beginning, for the rest of their shift. MR. Because if I become aware and know that somebody is doing something like that, that is reportable misconduct. I'm going to report that. So, if somebody came to me and said, well, this person is pre-filling out count slips, that would be something that I would say, okay, you know, I have to do a referral, or if I don't have enough evidence for it, I would have a supervisor, you know, put it out, said, hey, you cannot do pre-count slips. MR. : So, if we have people confessing, admitting that they are not only pre-filling out their count slips, but also EFTA00119297 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119298 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119299 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 282 MR. HAYES: Yeah, but do you always say is, you have to do what you have to do. Don't do it just because the 20-year-old guy did that. MR. : I do. I tell people about doing their job. The same thing when it comes to use of force. I tell staff all the time. Use enough force necessary to control the EFTA00119300 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 283 EFTA00119301 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 284 EFTA00119302 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 285 EFTA00119303 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 286 EFTA00119304 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119305 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 288 EFTA00119306 EFTA00119307 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119308 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119309 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 292 EFTA00119310 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 293 EFTA00119311 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 294 MR. HAYES: I'm a young lawyer. And I know it's hard to believe I was ever young. But I go - I'm supposed to interview a prison and I go to the interview, and he says, this person is the main rat against, and I said, no, he's not. I said, that person has got no - fucking nothing to do with it. He don't say nothing about you. Guy looks at me and says, oh, man, I better make a phone call. MR. : So, is it standard practice to allow inmates to make personal calls, as had done? MR. : You do I, sometimes if they come in, they don’t have a pack number. Like, you could have a family member that has passed away, and, you know, you allow them to make a call under that circumstance. You know, I have a pack number set up. You know, so, sometimes, but you should be monitoring that. Sometimes, you make a call to another agency. And the inmates, you know, you verify, hey, this is such and such. But you stay and you listen to the conversation. EFTA00119312 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119313 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 296 EFTA00119314 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119315 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 298 EFTA00119316 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119317 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119318 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119319 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119320 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 303 EFTA00119321 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 304 EFTA00119322 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119323 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 306 MR. : So, you would probably have to look at the response, the staff responding memorandums on what -. MR. : So, up until this date, did you think that he was alive when he had left the institution? MR. : That’s what I believed. That was the impression I had. MR. HAYES: Can I ask a question? Right. If he was dead when they came, and somebody found him, or even if he was close to death, how long would it have been that he tried to kill himself, and the time that they found him? In other words, does that mean he tried to kill himself 45 minutes before? Does that mean he tried to kill himself 30 minutes before? You understand the question I'm asking? MR. : Sure. I mean, that is something that the medical examiner, you know, makes that determination. MR. HAYES: Because obviously, if he was, had done whatever he did, during the time that there was supposed to be a round, and somebody fucked up, you know what I mean? If you are there, with a towel around your throat, that's EFTA00119324 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 307 EFTA00119325 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 308 EFTA00119326 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119327 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 310 EFTA00119328 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119329 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 312 EFTA00119330 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 313 MR. HAYES: So, you drew the inference EFTA00119331 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119332 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119333 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119334 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 317 EFTA00119335 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 318 EFTA00119336 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 319 EFTA00119337 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE Please have it complete and ready for submission on 8/13/2019.” She responded with no, addressing nothing, just saying, just responded simply, “In your email, you state, quote, ‘I am reminding you.’ End quote. I EFTA00119338 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 321 haven’t spoken to you or anyone else regarding the incident involving inmate Epstein or anything else pertaining to August 10th, 2019. So, how is it possible for you to be reminding me? Second, I had been properly relieved, prior to the incident involving inmate Epstein.” What is your take on that email? MR. : First of all, any major incident that takes place in the institution, we have to do what is called a report of incident. MR. : He is well within the scope of his employment, asking, okay, where is your, where is -. And I don't know if he was asking her the overall memorandum. Like, you are the shift lieutenant. You know, when this incident took place. So, technically, you should have been doing the packet. So, he is probably contacting her for that. MR. : Well, she was relieved at 5:30 a.m., but she was still there, and the incident happened at 6:30. And again, she wasaws there at least until 9:30. And she did respond to the SHU afterwards, helping with the EFTA00119339 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119340 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119341 EFTA00119342 EFTA00119343 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 326 EFTA00119344 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119345 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119346 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 329 EFTA00119347 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 330 EFTA00119348 EFTA00119349 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 332 EFTA00119350 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 333 MR. HAYES: But what would be an ulterior motive that would create the idea that she was doing something wrong? MR. : So, if - and granted, mistakes are made in the log - but you also annotate that in the log. Like, you will put, okay, late entry. Because typically, if you say the log is done already, when you go back and make changes, you make changes for this reason alone. An investigator comes in, looks at it, and says, well, wait a minute, it looks like you’ve been playing, you went back and just changed the numbers. So, you can put in EFTA00119351 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 334 there, and you say, okay, late entry, explain what your change was, and what the mistake was. MR. HAYES: So, really, with this -- MR. □ : You know? EFTA00119352 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 335 EFTA00119353 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119354 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 337 EFTA00119355 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119356 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 339 EFTA00119357 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119358 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119359 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 342 EFTA00119360 MR. HAYES: You know, if you, if you are a good trial lawyer, you know, allegedly a good trial lawyer, a lot of times, you are not supposed to be thorough. You are supposed to put an idea in the jury’s head, right? Where you can see they’re invulnerable, stay on that fucking idea, because if you are going to be thorough, you have to bring out something that you don’t want to bring out. You know, so you to speak to the things, but you know you got them. EFTA00119361 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119362 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 345 EFTA00119363 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119364 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 347 EFTA00119365 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 348 EFTA00119366 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119367 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 350 EFTA00119368 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 351 EFTA00119369 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 352 EFTA00119370 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 353 EFTA00119371 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 354 EFTA00119372 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 355 incidents where, you know, something would happen, and we tried to go back and find the tape, and we couldn’t. So, and it would break down, they would fix it. So, I mean, we did have issues like that before. But it was the age of the cameras. The -- MR. Because, yeah, the comtech claims that, you know, like, he had been, I mean, he’s a very soft-spoken person, but like, basically, screaming at the top of his lungs as much as a very soft-spoken person can, we need to fix these things, this is a continual problem. MR. : So, here is what it is. We don’t have money readily available at an institution to fix it. That money comes from what we call buildings and funds. MR. : Which is funded by Congress. So, you would have to talk to somebody in the region about what the regional budget is, but other institutions have issues going on. EFTA00119373 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 356 EFTA00119374 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 357 EFTA00119375 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 358 EFTA00119376 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 359 EFTA00119377 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119378 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 361 EFTA00119379 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 362 EFTA00119380 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119381 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119382 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 365 EFTA00119383 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 366 EFTA00119384 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 367 EFTA00119385 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 368 EFTA00119386 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119387 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 370 acceptable, if knew on August 8th that these cameras were down, and he didn't actually start working on it, or at least, I guess he was working on getting the parts, but then got the parts again on the, some time on the 9th, claims he didn't work on it because he couldn't get into it, into the SIS office. So, he was going to work on it on the 10th, on that Saturday. MR. : -- the question I would pose to you is, did he notify anybody that he couldn’t get in there? Did he make any attempt to contact the captain, or anybody to say, hey, I need to get into that office to get a part to do it, because if he had told the captain that, the captain would have got that office open for him. MR. : Yeah. I agree with you. It’s a he says that the MCC was a different-. So, at any other BOP institution, in the country, that would have happened with, his experience taught him that, at the MCC, basically it could wait until tomorrow. EFTA00119388 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 371 EFTA00119389 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 372 has rebuilt these things so many times. And every knew that these cameras needed to be reinstalled, and he had been saying that they needed to be reinstalled. And now he’s being looked at as the fall guy. We were getting the people in there to working. So now, let’s talk about the specific issue that you were talking about. He did not notify anybody to get into that room, to get to that part. That part was to fix the current system. It had nothing to do with the new system coming in. This is, he is saying that this was a part that we needed to fix, get put in, to deal with the current system. MR. : Now, what about the fact EFTA00119390 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 373 EFTA00119391 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 374 EFTA00119392 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 375 EFTA00119393 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119394 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 377 EFTA00119395 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 378 EFTA00119396 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119397 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119398 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119399 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119400 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 383 EFTA00119401 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 384 EFTA00119402 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 385 took a picture of our staff, and our staff rode with Epstein on it. So, I told about it, and I guess they said one of the paramedics had leaked the information. MR. : Now, who is it that you suspect would have been leaking information to him? EFTA00119403 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 386 EFTA00119404 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 387 EFTA00119405 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 388 EFTA00119406 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 389 EFTA00119407 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119408 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119409 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 392 EFTA00119410 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 393 EFTA00119411 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 394 EFTA00119412 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 395 EFTA00119413 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 396 EFTA00119414 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 397 EFTA00119415 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 398 EFTA00119416 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 399 EFTA00119417 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 400 EFTA00119418 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 401 EFTA00119419 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 402 EFTA00119420 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119421 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 404 EFTA00119422 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 405 EFTA00119423 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 406 EFTA00119424 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 407 EFTA00119425 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 408 MR. : Were they authorized, though, if OIG and FBI are doing an investigation, is the after action team authorized to come in and interview people? MR. : So, I’ve done after actions. And there is a point where you come to it, where you, if it’s an OIG or FBI investigation, that I can't. I mean, I can't question certain people because it might impede an investigation. Like, if you are going to look at video and all that stuff, or look at it, you can't because most of the time, it's been taken. So, I don't know -. MR. : So, possibly from that memo, though, that was created? If they are not really supposed to be doing. I mean, I'm assuming they are not really supposed to be doing interviews. MR. : I mean, I don't know who authorized them to come in and do the investigation. I don't know. It was, you know, who set the parameters on it. I can't speak on that. MR. : And is it a normal for them to do something like this, when there is EFTA00119426 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 409 EFTA00119427 EFTA00119428 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119429 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 412 Epstein pronounced dead by the emergency room physician. And we’ve already addressed this. My question was, was Epstein alive, or did he show signs of -? But we dug into that plenty. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : "On August 10th, 2019, the two assigned morning watch SHU officers failed to make their designated rounds, or count the SHU inmates for two counts. At 6:33 a.m., upon finding inmate Epstein unresponsive in his cell, with a torn bedsheet around his neck, staff utilized the body alarm to initiate a call for assistance. The medical response to the incident was timely, efficient, and exhaustive. Staff utilized an AED, as well as a continuous CPR unit care was assumed by EMS personnel." Are you aware of how - what information they obtained to say that the SHU officers failed to make their designated rounds or counts? EFTA00119430 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 413 EFTA00119431 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 414 EFTA00119432 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 415 EFTA00119433 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 416 EFTA00119434 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 417 EFTA00119435 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119436 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 419 EFTA00119437 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119438 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 421 EFTA00119439 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 422 EFTA00119440 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 423 EFTA00119441 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119442 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 425 EFTA00119443 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 426 EFTA00119444 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 427 EFTA00119445 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119446 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 429 EFTA00119447 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 430 don’t control. Staffing. You know, the budget. We don’t -. I don’t -. We don’t control that. I mean, we can turn around and say, I want this, but once the law is passed, and it said, this is what you are getting, you don’t -. We need to work with what we’ve got. MR. : No, and I understand that, that as, like, as far as the BOP goes. But I mean, the MCC, especially, you know, covering SDNY Epstein in a lie *05:00:18), and having such high-profile inmates. Was there do you think that there could have been anything done better, though, by the BOP, to make sure that your institution, specifically MCC, was better staffed? MR. : You could - so, let’s go TDY - we couldn’t really, couldn’t TDY to a point, but then, there are other institutions around the agency that were, you know, the staffing was an issue. So, they can't send somebody out to help, you know? And then, it just brought down the finding. I mean, and getting people to clear your background. Not everybody can clear a background to work. I mean, yeah, we can go out in the street and say, hey, we got a EFTA00119448 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 431 MR. : -- along with me because it’s so long. “He was also an inmate who had risk factors for assault by other inmates, and did require careful selection for appropriate cellmates. Although these issues were noted, well documented, and communicated, a failure still occurred by allowing inmate Epstein to be placed in the cell alone. Although feasible for an inmate to effectuate suicide while housed with a cellmate, the odds of this occurring are significantly lowered when housed with another inmate.” The report continues. "It is apparent various staff at the institution made a point EFTA00119449 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 432 EFTA00119450 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 433 EFTA00119451 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 434 EFTA00119452 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 435 EFTA00119453 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 436 EFTA00119454 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 437 EFTA00119455 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 438 EFTA00119456 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 439 EFTA00119457 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119458 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 441 MR. : No. But what I'm saying is, if we’re looking at assessing the situation on what happened in real time, that’s what I'm talking about. So, in real time, now, if they had known that, hey, you know what? These names had to go up and be, you know, vetted at the same time, maybe it would have been a different thought process. MR. : And was it possible - and maybe you discussed this - was it possible that, hey, listen, the SHU officers could have replaced -? Did they have the ability to replace Reyes, if they wanted to, or did they have to come up the chain of command, for the chain of command to tell them who the new inmate -? MR. : They were instructed, hey, let us know when - where he's to have a cellmate at all time - and to notify, let someone know. Because again, due to the individual that he was, you just don't want to throw anybody. MR. : Okay. But doesn't that kind of hinder them from taking action? Let’s say, at that point on that day, you are not in the EFTA00119459 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00119460 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 443 EFTA00119461 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 444 EFTA00119462 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 445 EFTA00119463 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 446 EFTA00119464 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 447 EFTA00119465 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 448 EFTA00119466 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 449 EFTA00119467 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 450 EFTA00119468 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 451 EFTA00119469 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 452 EFTA00119470 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 453 EFTA00119471 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 454 ## CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: EFTA00119472