DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 21, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: [blank] EFTA00112740 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112741 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112742 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112743 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 3-226/10A, which would be the Non-Disclosure Agreement, and you signed - you read both of them, signed them, but for the record I’m going to read them to you and let’s start off with the Warnings and Assurances form. The United - the form states: The United States Department of Justice Office of Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you wish to - you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceeding or both. The waiver states I understand the EFTA00112744 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me. EFTA00112745 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 shown to me during my interview with the OIG labeled OIG Documents will be made part of the OIG record of that interview. As a condition of being granted access to review the OIG interview documents, I agree not to make an audio or video recording of the interview, excuse me, and I also agree that until the OIG’s final report or a summary of the final report is released to the public I will not copy, photograph, discuss, or disclose any information from or about the OIG interview documents I review to anyone other than the OIG, my attorney if I have legal counsel who also executes a non-disclosure agreement with terms similar to this agreement, or other specifically authorized by the OIG after any such person executes a non-disclosure agreement with terms similar to this agreement. I further agree that even after the OIG’s final report or a summary of the final report is released to the public I will not discuss or disclose any information from or about the OIG interview documents that are not contained in or that are redacted from the publicly released final report or summary of the final report. EFTA00112746 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 These provisions are consistent with and do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise alter the employee obligations, rights, or liabilities created by existing statute or Executive order relating to (1) classified information, (2) communications to Congress, (3) the reporting to an Inspector General or the Office of Special Counsel of a violation of any law, rule, or regulation, or mismanagement, a gross waste of funds, an abuse of authority, or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety, or (4) any other whistleblower protection. The definitions, requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, and liabilities created by controlling Executive order and statutory provisions are incorporate into this agreement and are controlling. EFTA00112747 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112748 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112749 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 trades. I can’t even count how many jobs I’ve had, but my main career out of everything was truck driving. I was pretty much a truck driver. I drove all kinds of trucks and stuff like that. Then when I met my current wife back in ’08 we had moved to North Carolina to be by her family and that’s when I acquired a job with the North Carolina Department of Corrections, and then I was down there for two years and did that. We moved back to New York, which is where I went back to driving truck again while I was in the hiring process for the Bureau of Prisons. And then I ended up getting hired with the Bureau of Prisons in November of 2011, and I started at MDC Brooklyn. MR. : How long were you at MDC EFTA00112750 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 EFTA00112751 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 EFTA00112752 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112753 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 MR. : I would probably have to say - I don’t know the exact dates because his exit was kind of unique. He didn’t actually initially retire; he went out on some kind of other type of leave and eventually it’s to my understanding he ended up retiring. But when he had went out all communication stopped with everybody with him. Nobody - he never kept in touch with anybody. He never reached out. But -- MR. : -- I really don’t know what hey, I don’t know his exact date, but I would probably want to say that I was there for almost maybe just under or right around or another year after he had left. I don’t think it was that much because there was several other people locally that had filled in EFTA00112754 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112755 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 something to do with facility managers all going out there. And all I know is that when he went out there, he went there for a week or so, and he never returned to the institution after that. MR. : I have no idea. I have no idea. I couldn’t tell you. I mean, there was a lot of rumors, but I just know that when he went to that training, it was like he went home after that. He never came back to the institution or that conference, whatever. MR. : Now, do you know if it was personal reasons, medical, or administrative? MR. : I have no idea why he didn’t come back although he did make medical issues known to us on the job, that he had some medical issues. MR. : Okay. And you said a few people filled in the position. So his title EFTA00112756 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 EFTA00112757 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 EFTA00112758 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 EFTA00112759 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 EFTA00112760 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112761 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 facilities manager. Does this jog your memory at all? MR. : I do. I was always - when had left, I was pretty much assumed the facilities manager. Like I said, I was never formally promoted or even temporarily entered that position, nor was I ever designated as acting. So the fact that that says facility manager, I don’t know why or who put that there because I was always a general foreman. I was never, ever in the role of a facility or with (Indiscernible *00:22:26) full title, whether temporary or permanent, was never a facility manager. MR. : I was never even formally designated as acting, they just pretty much said, “There’s no facility manager, is next in the chain of command,” so they just referred to me as it. That’s what I’m assuming whoever typed this up. MR. : I know it's been about three, four years. I know it's kind of tough EFTA00112762 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 EFTA00112763 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 EFTA00112764 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 EFTA00112765 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 EFTA00112766 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 EFTA00112767 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 before even got there. They had recorder and decoder issues. There was a whole slew of things and I would assume - I would imagine it was probably due to the age of the institution and there was very little infrastructure upgrades and updating and stuff like that. But I remember prior to, you know, me inheriting what started, there was all kind of issues with the cameras from what I heard from internal communications and stuff like that. So started this program, this project, at the request of higherups. I don’t really know the backdrop on that, that was in between them. And then I really did not get involved with it at all until he never came back to work. He dropped off and then I just picked up after him. MR. : I kind of missed a key point I wanted to ask. So as a - can you differentiate the job duties between a facility manager and the general foreman? MR. : So basically, the facility manager they keep track of the budget. They authorize expenditures. They obviously EFTA00112768 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 supervise me, and then I in turn supervise the subordinate staff, the wage grade trade guys. But basically, he handled the approval of projects, you know, submitted approvals for projects. He did, like, the five- and 10-year plans for the facility, authorized all the expenditures. He went ahead and sat in on all the department head meetings to give executive staff briefings on what’s going on in the department, progress reports, stuff like that. Listen to any concerns that they would have and then he brings it back to us. And in my job, my main job by title is literally - I was in charge of supervising, monitoring, and then the wage grade guys that were below me because I was also wage grade. The facility manager is a GS employee. I was a WS employee just like the rest of the trade guys. And my job was basically to supervise them guys, assign them work, make sure they were coming and going in the facility with the inmates, make sure that they were handling their tools and all that other stuff. I did their performance evaluations and all that other stuff. And the facility manager pretty EFTA00112769 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 much did all that on me. So he was my supervisor. He would evaluate me, you know, keep track of my time and all that other stuff. And that’s pretty much it. MR. : Who were some of the employees that reported to you? You said the wage employees. Who were the employees that reported to you? MR. In the Facility Department it was the trade specific wage guys, so you had the communications technicians, engineering technicians, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC guys. And then each one of those tradesmen have a (Indiscernible *00:31:39) cadre of inmates that work for them, so I would go ahead - work orders would come in from all departments, you know, requests, “Hey, can you change a light bulb? Can you unclog the toilet here?” I would give that work order to the appropriate trade guy and then he would take his group of inmates and go out into the institution and fix it and close out the work order, report back to me. MR. □: Okay. Agent □, any EFTA00112770 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 EFTA00112771 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 MR. : Yeah, that’s why I was saying it was - I bumped heads with executive staff sometimes because I thought a lot of the decisions that they were making weren’t in the best interest of the facility at the time. And when I say that I mean, like, infrastructure stuff, you know. And I kind of like - they didn’t like the way I prioritized certain things within the department. So there was some conflicts every now and again and that’s why the warden would go ahead and say, “Okay. Hey, you know what, you’re overseeing the Facilities Department now. Have report to you.” And then they also did the same thing with at one point where he came in, which was right around the thing and where he was told that he was going to go ahead and - so they were like dual role. They were pretty much - your executive assistant and the facility manager and then your AWO and the facility manager. MR. So were you still the acting facility manager and they were just overseeing what you were doing to make sure that in your acting capacity you’re doing it EFTA00112772 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 EFTA00112773 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 EFTA00112774 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 EFTA00112775 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 EFTA00112776 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 EFTA00112777 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 EFTA00112778 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 know, February 2019, and then, you know, you clarify that you had oversight from the executive staff in your position and were limited with your facility manager decision making ability.” Would that be fair? MR. : Right, because if regardless of whether I was acting or not and whether I had oversight or not, the mere fact that was not there, I still had to do a lot of his duties to keep the department functioning whether somebody deemed me officially acting or not. I was still doing his functions because he was not there. MR. : Yeah, that sounds like acting to me, so I just want to make sure that we are clear there. Like you’re just saying you’re not acting because you weren’t official - you know, you weren’t temporarily promoted, but you were performing those duties with oversight. MR. : They would - like I said, he would call in sick and not come into work for a EFTA00112779 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 EFTA00112780 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 EFTA00112781 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 MR. And I believe - well, it was December of 2016, so nothing happened in ’16. I think, you know, because I was - I got there, like, the week of Christmas. So going into ’17, I know that there was talks about - it wasn’t so much on the cameras, it was on the recorders. There was always constant internal chatter between the comm techs and SIS and everything else on how - I guess they had an older system that was analog and everybody else had digital, but their main gripe was, I guess - and I’m not too familiar with the security side of stuff, I’ll be honest with you, I always refer to them when I needed a question answered, but from what I gather, what I EFTA00112782 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 EFTA00112783 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 nothing. And then you had other cameras which were in certain cells up in the Special Housing Unit where whether they were working or not, it was to my understanding that there was a lot of damage being done to them by the inmates that were in those cells. So they were either scratching the lenses on the cameras, covering up with wet toilet paper or whatever the case may be. I, myself, I couldn’t even tell you if those cameras were ever working. I only knew of one camera in the Special Housing Unit that worked for the cells for the ranges and that was, like, one suicide cell that they had there on J-Range. But I don’t - it started out with me, the recorders were the issue, and then they were like, “Oh, okay, we’re going to go ahead and spend this money and fix these recorders and get these - this conversion from analog to digital, let’s suck in the cameras too that don’t work.” But I can tell you that I know that SIS was constantly going to the comm techs all the time because they were doing investigations and had no camera footage. It almost seemed like EFTA00112784 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 (Indiscernible *00:45:47). And obviously this was long before the Jeffrey Epstein thing because, you know, I had even left the institution before Jeffrey Epstein got there. This was just for, like, smaller internal investigations that they were doing where they were constantly going to Daniels for the camera footage issues. And the determination was made by and the higherups, I guess, and they said, well, if we’re going to go ahead and change this recorder why don’t we just go ahead and try to upgrade everything, get some new cameras inside and out. And they even wanted to add cameras to the existing complement because they had a lot of blind spots and then obviously the infrastructure itself, like the wiring and the conduit was all part of that deal. MR. : In your knowledge in 2018 and in '19, how many cameras were there inside the MCC? MR. : I couldn’t tell you honestly. There was a lot, but there was also a lot that should have been there. But I do remember had a map of where every single - pre- EFTA00112785 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 EFTA00112786 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 inconsistent because it was to my understanding certain cameras were added throughout the years for certain specific reasons. They would designate certain cells for certain purposes and then they would cancel that purpose and convert it back to a regular cell. I mean, it was just the constant changing of the operations that changed the cameras, and that was just obvious without even knowing the backdrop because you could tell just by the cameras there were so many different makes and models. They weren’t all consistent. They weren’t all consistent. They weren’t the same for the most part depending on what area you were in. about? You're not talking about 10-South? We're talking about between G, H, J, K, L, M, T that's inside the SHU? MR. : Yes, those for the SHU, as far as I know those were all there pre-existing before me. There was never no camerawork done up there, whether they were working or not. EFTA00112787 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 EFTA00112788 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 that didn’t have any coverages. There was, like, a little mini TV rec room in the housing units that had no camera coverage in them. There was a lot of blind spots in certain areas throughout the institution. So they went ahead and they added what they wanted to add. But then also because the recorder was getting upgraded, the infrastructure that was in place because it was analog, obviously it was going to go to digital, they had to run new wiring, new conduit. All that had to be done. So under that contract, last I remember walking out that door, what happened was it came in over a million dollars originally and somebody came back and said, “Listen, we need to get this to 800,000 or lower.” Somebody threw out a number there, I don’t remember who it was. It came through and somebody up top said that because of some kind of procurement avenue or regulation or something, they would’ve had to go through a whole different procurement avenue because of that amount. They said to make it easier and to try and increase our chances of getting this money and getting it done, we had to bring the number EFTA00112789 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 down to like 800,000 or something. I don't remember the exact number. So then the decision was made because originally we did this contract, whoever we were purchasing the cameras from, they were also supposed to install those cameras. We paid for the labor for them to do the entire project initially. My guys weren’t going to touch anything, they were just going to provide support. So the initial $1 million number was to have the contract SigNet, I guess it was in that contract, whoever we were getting those cameras from, they were going to go ahead and do the install and we would supervise them, escort them, and give support when they came. So when they came back and told us that that number needed to get down below 800 or whatever, that’s when the decision was made to where they said, “Okay. We can do this. We can just have the contractor install the cameras and we can use the trade guys, the electrician and the comm techs to run the cable and the wiring to save on the labor, to bring the labor costs down to try and get into that number.” EFTA00112790 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 EFTA00112791 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112792 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112793 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 EFTA00112794 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 EFTA00112795 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 EFTA00112796 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 EFTA00112797 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 EFTA00112798 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 EFTA00112799 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 date is on 09/28/2018.” It says, “MCC New York camera system: provide services in accordance with SFS, SOW, and technical proposal.” And it looks like GSA, GS07F-0322T. It looks like the contract number’s in here too. It looks like based - looking at this, the contract, the estimate was - I mean, the contract states that the delivery for all that equipment and everything that was ordered was scheduled to be delivered at the MCC on September 28, 2018. According to your recollection, do you recall if all these items were delivered to the MCC in September 2018? MR. : Can we go back to when this contract was drafted? Okay. So you see here where the award was 09/21? MR. : And then the delivery date is 09/28, that’s a week. There is no way, no way - I’m not even going to - I shouldn’t have to go any further, but I’m going to do it anyway. There’s no way you could deliver a product like that - the install alone if the contractor would have did it would have taken well over a year. Just the install alone for that kind of EFTA00112800 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112801 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 MR. : That place, absolutely. But I could tell you this much, two things wrong with that. Number one, it was my impression that the contractor when they received all the cameras and got all the cameras in stock and everything was on-site and they had all the equipment on-site and everything was in stock, they were bringing it with them. I didn’t - I don’t know if they were going to dropship that or not and have the stuff delivered directly to the institution and then come afterwards. But even if that was the case, somebody would have to had gone to the rear loading dock where that stuff comes in and there’s a logbook back there and they would’ve had to sign for that delivery and it would’ve had to been somebody in the facilities department. impression that SigNet was supposed to bring all that equipment with them when they come in to install? EFTA00112802 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 so to me contractually wise there would have been too much liability there to have the stuff shipped directly to the institution and then call the contractor up and say, “Hey, come in, all the stuff is here,” because if something was missing or broken, because the contractor didn’t have chain of custody of that equipment the whole entire time, they could blame us. We had a lot of liability on our hands and we would still have to pay the contractor regardless. We wouldn’t be able to hold them liable for any damages as far as that goes. So my impression was when we did this everything was going to go to SigNet or SigNet was purchasing it and when everything was inhouse they would come and bring everything with them and install it. MR. : I have an email here. I'm going to show this to you. This email is from Justin Houston. He's a program manager for SigNet Technologies and -- MR. : Yeah. EFTA00112803 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE myself. And he states, "Hey, . I wanted to send this to you in regards to the question you asked regarding if they had new gear on-site. Attached is the PO that we received on 09/21/2018. The gear was delivered around 30 days after that and on 11/01/2018 I sent over the paperwork for the site to submit for the IP addresses needed to install the system. I will forward the email traffic as well." It looks like based on what he stated - let me see if I can get this. Actually, this is the contract itself. It looks like he’s stating that by 09/21/2018 that’s - the contract was signed, and it looks like within 30 days all the gear was delivered. But you’re stating you don’t believe the gear was delivered? MR. □: Nope, not at all. MR. □: Is it possible that he was - EFTA00112804 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 EFTA00112805 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 personnel there, staff, and they have a big cage that’s in that loading area, so all the deliveries go in there and then they would write down who had deliveries, call those departments and say, “Hey, you need to send somebody to come pick up your stuff. You got stuff here.” So whoever that person was to go there to pick up the stuff would have to sign the logbook saying that they picked up the stuff. But you’re talking about a truck loading stuff that wouldn’t even have fit in that cage. It would’ve been like pallets and stuff like - it would have been huge to store that stuff. It would’ve had to have, you know - and then, you know, it’s all electronic stuff. That’s why I don’t recall that stuff being delivered prior to the - but I was under the impression the contractor was coming with that stuff. I was not under the impression that that was going to get delivered separately, and if did it wasn’t to my knowledge. I never saw a single new camera while I was there or recorder or anything like that and somebody would’ve had to have signed for that. EFTA00112806 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 And then we would have had to have - there would have had to have been inventory taken to put that in storage and somewhere in the Facilities Department. So like I said, going back to the contract, they awarded it on the $21^{\text{st}}$ and wanted it done by the $28^{\text{th}}$, that's just totally unrealistic and irrational. I don't -- MR. : -- if the things that you purchased from them, would have that been the material as well that your staff members would have been using to run the conduit and wiring and things? Is that part of that purchase order or is that something you were going to be receiving yourself and --? MR. : So I was under the impression that SigNet was going to wait until they had all their equipment, wherever they get it from or whoever they’re buying it from or who their supply is, when they have everything they need to do the job that’s within the scope of work of the contract, they were going to come on-site with everything and begin doing the work EFTA00112807 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112808 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 the people listed. It’s dated on April 1, 2019. Subject is Anixter TP-120, 240, and SigNet Tech. It says, “Good afternoon, Ms. After reviewing my CORS Report for the Central Office supplies samples, I went ahead and asked our comm tech on the status of these particular PO’s and he advised me that they haven’t been able to receive the fiber cable and without the cable they cannot - they can’t proceed with the camera systems. He mentioned that the company’s requiring some sort of documentation and he would be - he should be able to provide you with the details. Sincerely, Financial Program Specialist, U.S. Department of Justice, BOP.” : -- it just tells me that - it verifies what I said, that there was no cameras or wiring or anything on-site there at the time that I left. It was just not there. But it also makes sense that if these - the wiring isn’t there, they can’t hook up the cameras. EFTA00112809 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 But what got me - where I’m concerned, I guess, with this is who were they talking to here because this would have to be a problem with SigNet. If SigNet’s installing - connecting the wires to the cameras and everything like that, I don’t know who they’re really addressing in that email. MR. It looks like it’s more internal email, right? And they’re trying to figure out what exactly - why the camera systems have not been installed yet. It looks like told them that the status of the fiber cable is not in, like the fiber cable or cables have not been delivered, right? I’m sorry. And without the cables they can’t proceed with the camera systems. MR. : Well, yeah, that’s cause and effect. Yeah, so that’s accurate as I read it. The fact that it’s three years since I left there and there’s still no wiring there is kind of intriguing in itself. MR. : Well, this is 2019. This is like a couple months after you left, April 1, 2019. EFTA00112810 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 EFTA00112811 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 EFTA00112812 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 don’t have the tracking that shows when you exactly received it but best guess is seven to 14 days, which would put it on your dock around October 14, 2018, and it was installed the week of August 16, 2019. We will try to continue - we will continue to try and find the tracking information for when it actually hit your dock. Let me know if you need anything else.” MR. : Yeah. So that was going to be my next question is: Where is any tracking information on this? And then if FedEx does recycle tracking numbers, that’s definitely news to me. But also, when this email - what are they saying they shipped? MR. : It looks like it was a question about the camera system that was on-site at MCC. They’re talking about specifically the camera system that was sent from SigNet -- MR. : It doesn't say that. It doesn't say that. It doesn't tell them what they're - it doesn't even - forget about the fact they don't have no tracking - it doesn't even say what they're talking about other than if we could identify what the - I don't even EFTA00112813 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 EFTA00112814 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 76 EFTA00112815 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 EFTA00112816 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 EFTA00112817 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 was any - there’s no way. MR. : And before - just on a side note, as far as the conduit that needed to be run, how long should’ve that taken your people to run? MR. : It would have taken a very long time because the department was severely understaffed, and the institution came first. The daily operations of the institution came first. So if you had lights out, you had phones down, you know, stuff like that the tradesmen had to go ahead and take care of work orders and stuff to maintain the institution first and then they would come back and on their downtime and stuff and do work pertaining to this. MR. : Okay. About how many man hours do you think it takes though, I mean, if they actually had worked on it? MR. : It’s kind of hard to tell because I don’t know the total picture of the routing of where all the cameras were going in addition to the ones that are existing there, but I can tell you that when this whole thing was going on every - we were all short-staffed. EFTA00112818 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 There was a constant flip over of staff, and then you had augmentation going on. My guys were working housing units more than they were in the department and working mandated overtime. So they were covering augmentation was like you would act as a CO and go up in the housing unit for the shift, and then some of them would get stuck doing overtime for another shift. And then depending on how that fell, they went up there all day working the housing unit, got told they had to work all night, then they were banging on me in the morning because they worked a double before that. So - but I mean, man hours’ wise, I really couldn’t tell you. I know there’s a book out there, electrical code book out there that tells you the standard amount of feet of conduit that can be installed within an eighth-hour period, but I mean, it just - that stuff doesn’t apply to a prison, especially MCC New York. There are just too much operational changes and stuff on a daily basis that prevented these guys from dedicating 100 percent of their work to something like that. EFTA00112819 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 Especially being that they already had something in place that was semi-functional. MR. : Just to clarify, I know you mentioned it, said you never received anything, you never signed for anything. If the receiving - if the delivery area received it, right, you said the back - the rear door received it, would they have some kind of log they kept? MR. : So that log was kept in the cage where the packages were - be delivered at. So inside that - they had one officer dedicated that had one key for that cage back there and that was their job. R & D it was called, they were part of that crew, and they would just go ahead and you get delivery, UPS, FedEx, they would all come in, put all that stuff in a cage, and they would write in the book who it was addressed to, what department, and then they would call you and let you know you had something or send you an email, however the officer chose to do it, and you would go there and sign for it and pick it up. EFTA00112820 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 82 MR. : And no one notified you. This - the book that they keep, is it labeled anything specific as you recall? MR. : If I recall correctly, I saw two different versions of the book. One was a binder, a three-ring binder type with a pre-filled out form, and then also there was a have you ever seen those little green government logbooks that are just plain? You know, there was one of those back there at one point. And in addition to the tracking information, of course, you know, because I believe the three-ring binder part of that - because that’s the other thing is if something is getting delivered to me, if I ordered something out of the department, I don’t care what it was, a case of light bulbs or, you know, a truckload of conduit or whatever, when that stuff ships this way, the vendor’s sending me an email with tracking EFTA00112821 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 information letting me know when to accept it because they know it’s coming to a secure institution where the truck and the driver are subject to screening and there’s only certain hours that they can deliver during the day. So it’s not like a wide open 24/7 warehouse obviously. They can only deliver during certain hours. So I would make sure and let everybody know you need to give me the tracking information and I need to know what day that this stuff is coming to me because I need to make sure that I have the arrangements in place to get this delivery accepted and not turned away. MR. : Were you - back then were you in constant communication with SigNet or was there somebody else on your staff that was in communication with SigNet? MR. : The comm techs. We had two comm techs that started with this thing and initialed. I inherited two comm techs when I came there, which both were involved with the project with when he started it. One of them had retired and then one of them stayed behind. He was still there. He was a younger EFTA00112822 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112823 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 85 EFTA00112824 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 86 office of Financial Services. MR. : You’re talking about Line 7A where it states Richard O’Valley, R. O’Valley (Indiscernible *1:29:05)? MR. : Yeah. So any time I want to purchase anything, it doesn’t matter what it is, he would get the paperwork and then the rest of it’s between him and the contracting staff at Fort Dix, the CO at Fort Dix, whoever that CO is. So sometimes with stuff like this, I have seen in other instances where people will look at this contract and they don’t - they just see a name and they just put it on there and send them stuff. But I would also like to think that if Richard O’Valley or even , the comm tech, or somebody got a tracking number that they would have had the decency or the common sense or whatever you want to call it to to forward it to me, you know, to send it to me. EFTA00112825 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112826 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 88 MR. Yeah. It’s kind of like separated. It was - used to be part of the yard, but it’s totally fenced in by itself and there’s a big huge warehouse there. And at the time that I had left there, food service, staff from food service ran that operation because they had big giant walk-in freezers and coolers there, which is where they kept a lot of their overstock. But also, every single department in the institution, didn’t matter who you was, human resources, trust fund, facilities, everybody had their own separate cages in that warehouse as well to keep overstock supplies for their departments as well. And has its own loading dock, trucks go in and out of there every day, all day with deliveries and all kinds of stuff, EFTA00112827 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 89 EFTA00112828 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 90 MR. : Yeah, I just - I told - I - when Agent Daniels gave me the initial phone call, I was like, wow, 2018. That was like - I just had no - we were still waiting on everything. And even if - I would have expected the contractor to be with them. But I know there was delays with the wiring. The wiring was crazy. They had some crazy delays with wiring. And to be honest with you, something like this just the way that institution was ran, there was just way too many hands in the pot. It was just - two wardens, two AW’s, two comm techs, two facility managers it sounds like. There’s just too much stuff going on, too many people involved. MR. : You mentioned that Executive Assistant and “ ” , they possibly - you know, I know you were acting facility manager, but at the same time, you know, they instructed you, gave instructions too. Any chance that they had communications with SigNet over this? MR. : I don’t see how or why, but I wouldn’t say no. I would say that if that did EFTA00112829 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112830 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 was still managing it because he was the AW with at that time. MR. : I have no idea. I just heard it being used all the time. But see, I had a personal issue. You got to realize in my tenure with the Bureau, I worked at four different institutions, three of them high profile. All right. MCC New York, me and used to - I had a problem with that equipment being in the same office as my comm tech. You go to any other institution, that equipment is under SIS control and if they need a comm tech to look at it, SIS calls for the comm tech and then SIS stays there and provides oversight, an escort the whole time that they’re working on that equipment. Here at MCC New York, and I'm only EFTA00112831 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 93 EFTA00112832 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112833 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 EFTA00112834 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00112835 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 EFTA00112836 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 98 time - I just never seen that before. They shouldn’t - you know, the only time a comm tech is dealing with camera stuff is when there is there’s a repair or maintenance involved. You know, they shouldn’t be able to, at least in my opinion and from what I’ve seen at other institutions, be able to just hit a power button and turn on a monitor and see footage, whether live or recorded. And then the fact that that was in their office, you know, was just astonishing to me. It was new to me, and the only thing that kept me somewhat at bay was that it was - the comm techs were the only trade in the whole entire department who didn’t have inmates working for them because of this - the equipment they had access to. Which is also a reason they can’t get a lot of work done so quick is because they don’t have inmate (Indiscernible *1:42:19). They’re the only people in the entire Facilities Department who doesn’t get any inmate labor help because of the equipment and stuff that they have access to. MR. : Where was the office located, the comm techs' office? EFTA00112837 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 99 EFTA00112838 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 guys for a loop. You guys threw me for a loop. I mean, some of that stuff on that paperwork is just - I mean, reading it as it is, it just - I don't know, but yeah, I guess if you need me again just give me a shout, send me an email, or whatever the case may be, and I'll send you the bill for lunch. MR. : If you think about anything, if you feel like you thought about something that popped in, your memory got refreshed while you’re sitting there, you want - send me an email. EFTA00112839 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 EFTA00112840 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 ## CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of JEFFREY Lisa A. Losleben, Transcriber EFTA00112841