DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JULY 15, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00111539 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111540 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 The recorder. Today is July 15, 2021. My name is I’m a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General, New York Field Office and these are my credentials. The interview is with the Federal Bureau of Prisons employee. It is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Inspector General investigation. Today is July 15th. The time is 11:16 a.m. The interview is being conducted at Department of Justice Office of Inspector General New York Field Office. Also present is DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent and please identify yourselves and . MR. : Spell your last name for the record. MR. : Yeah. MR. : , Federal Correctional Officer, MCC New York. MS. RICHMAN: Stacey Richman, Richman Hill and Associates, here to represent Mr. and joining me is my Legal Intern for the EFTA00111541 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111542 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 Basis. The form states, “You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. The investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer any questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings or both.” The waiver states, “I understand the warnings and assurances stated above and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me or no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me.” Do you understand that? You can read it if you have to and if you understand, please sign under where it says, “Employee signature.” MR. : And if you wanted to ask any questions about it, this would be the time EFTA00111543 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111544 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111545 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111546 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111547 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111548 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111549 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111550 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 EFTA00111551 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111552 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 MR. : So, I was working Special Housing Unit on overtime and me and the officer had heard some sort of commotion and we were about to do our round down that tier, I believe it was M tier and inmate Tartaglione was his bunkie and he was at the door asking for help. We got there. When I looked, because Tartaglione is a little bit big and the window is small, I asked him to move to the side. I saw Epstein with something tied around his neck, but he was sitting on the floor. I told him, you know, “Call for medical assistance,” I told my partner. We cuffed up Tartaglione, took him out. I took it off from Epstein’s neck and we started doing CPR, but he was breathing. You know, he was already breathing and everything. EFTA00111553 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111554 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111555 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 EFTA00111556 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 MR. : His back was against the ladder, so, you know, he wasn’t laying flat. But his legs were - one of his legs was definitely straight out. I can’t remember how the - I think the other leg might have been curved a little bit. But that’s about it. He was on his butt though and his back against the ladder with, you know. MR. : In the days prior, that was the rumor that was circulating that allegedly Epstein must have told someone, Operations or whatnot, but no one has directly told me. I just remember hearing it in the building. But what I do know is when he came off suicide watch, Epstein, he did ask to go back with Tartaglione. MR. : I mean the days after, you know, the days after he attempted suicide. He went on suicide watch then his lawyers reached out and said, you know, it was an attempted EFTA00111557 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 assault. I don’t know what they said, but I was there when they took him off suicide watch and they said, you know, “It wasn’t a suicide, so take him off,” but, you know, “Put him back in Special Housing,” whatever the case may be and he asked to go back with Tartaglione and the Lieutenant was like, “No, he can’t do that.” So I’m assuming he told the Lieutenant that it was an assault. EFTA00111558 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 EFTA00111559 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 you to believe that Tartaglione in fact tried to harm Epstein? EFTA00111560 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111561 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 MR. : From what I heard, because obviously medical staff clears them, so I don’t, you know, I have no part in clearing anybody. But from what I heard, the reason why he came off is his lawyers told something to the judge and the judge called the building saying, “He shouldn’t be on suicide watch, get him off.” Because when you’re on suicide watch you don’t get attorney visits. So, and he used to get attorney visits every day, like she said and he would have that room like from when attorney opens until when attorney conference closes. So when he went on suicide watch you don’t get it no more. So I don’t know what transpired, but the lawyers spoke to the judge EFTA00111562 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 EFTA00111563 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 EFTA00111564 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111565 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 MR. : Well, one, I know because I’ll transport, you know, and I’m on Special Housing quite a bit just bringing inmates back from attorney conference or helping out, whatever the case may be. But I know the first cell because I’m the one that responded when he, you know, tried to attempt suicide the first time, so I remember that. And the second one I know because, you know, I worked that unit on overtime. Not the night he did it, but so I know the cell he was in. MR. : Well, what would happen is, unless they’re severely busy, but Internal, we just meet them at the door. So whatever officers are there, take him out of the thing, you know, they get a phone call and then they EFTA00111566 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111567 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 EFTA00111568 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 remember he had another bunkie when he came back and that guy, if I’m not mistaken, I could be wrong, was shipped out either the day before or the morning of when Epstein, you know, killed himself. EFTA00111569 EFTA00111570 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 got court in the afternoon. Sometimes, like I said, they get it the night before, but that's rarely. They most of the time get it like in the morning sometime, you know, like overnight maybe 4:00 in the morning you get it or 5:00 in the morning or whatever. MR. □: And what’s exactly listed on that list? MR. : It says, whoever is getting packed out like going to another institution or air lift or whatever the case may be. Whoever is going to court period. Basically just that type of stuff, there’s nothing else on there, no. EFTA00111571 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 EFTA00111572 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 EFTA00111573 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 EFTA00111574 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 EFTA00111575 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 EFTA00111576 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111577 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111578 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111579 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111580 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111581 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 4 EFTA00111582 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 EFTA00111583 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 MR. : What kind of paperwork? MR. : The SEP rosters like I said or the movement in the building. Like, literally everything is in SENTRY, so what ends up happening is the Lieutenant’s log, the officer’s log, everything is - you could go back in SENTRY and look and be like, “Oh, well, inmate Daniels, the court list said he had court but he never went to court because he got injured playing basketball and they took him out on a medical trip.” So now, I go to SENTRY and it will say that you weren’t in court, but you were out on a, you know, hospital, you were out at a hospital that’s why you’re off the count. So it’s not that you never came back from court, the court list said that you had court so that’s why the computer and the log is necessary because now I look at the log and I’m like, it’s 2:00 in the morning, Daniels isn’t back from court, that makes no sense. No, you never went to court, you’re in the hospital because you broke your finger playing basketball. You know what I’m saying? MR. : Okay. MR. : The PPBB-38 you’re EFTA00111584 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 EFTA00111585 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111586 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111587 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111588 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 EFTA00111589 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 EFTA00111590 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 EFTA00111591 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 EFTA00111592 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 EFTA00111593 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111594 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 EFTA00111595 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 wouldn’t have noticed him. Quiet guy. I don’t know if he’s ever been in a fight or any of that, you know, so it’s safe to say, had he not been his bunkie, I might have not even remembered what he looked like. EFTA00111596 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 EFTA00111597 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111598 EFTA00111599 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111600 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111601 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111602 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 ever be notified if a certain inmate is not coming back? MR. : I mean, yeah, they’ve told me, because remember, we’re doing the count. So, they may say, when I come, they may be, “Internal pick up two from R&D going back to the housing unit,” and when I come, they’d be like, “Oh, Reyes ain’t coming back for whatever reason,” but it’s through passing, they don’t have to tell me because what happens is, Control Center should be keying that in so that when I do my count, I don’t need to know that because on SENTRY, it’s already he’s no longer there and - you know what I’m saying? So if it is, it’s through common conversation but it’s not a must for them to tell me because where - we have the faith that everybody else did their jobs and the computer is, you know, everything is logged in and moved and accounted for so I don’t need to worry about that when I do my count. MR. □: What count are you doing? Like as Internal, where do you do the counts? MR. □: We do the 4 o’clock when we come in. EFTA00111603 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111604 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 EFTA00111605 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 EFTA00111606 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 EFTA00111607 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 MR. : So if an inmate in SHU is on what’s called the kick out list, that means their time is up, you know, with whatever they went in SHU for, their time is up, they get put on a kick out list and the kick out list gets cleared by everybody, SIA, the Captain, R&D, the Lieutenant, everybody signs off on it. There’s a bunch of people. So that usually happens day time, and then by night time, they’re being kicked out because everything was signed off on because they can’t go to certain units with separations or if they had a problem on that unit. So it’s a process. It’s a lot of forms they’ve got to go through. So, right there, if it was on the kick out list, that’s how many people were notified and they already know about it, you know. EFTA00111608 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 EFTA00111609 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 EFTA00111610 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 EFTA00111611 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 MR. : Yes. Because they got to update - C&A has to update all the, you know, the SENTRY paperwork for the count and everything. MR. No. Control has to figure it out because it will mess the count up. If you just move an inmate to Five North and tell nobody, when we do the count, we’re going to want to know why your unit is short and his has an extra body. So eventually, Control has to be notified about something. Now, if it’s just cell to cell, you know, maybe your sink breaks on the unit and you’ve got an empty cell over there and you move him there. That’s, you know, and you do it yourself in the log, that’s different. But anything leaving the unit, Control has to know. MR. : Okay. And does Control have to open the outer doors for each unit for EFTA00111612 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 75 EFTA00111613 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 76 EFTA00111614 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111615 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 MR. : Either heading back or going - I just know that his - because, for a while, he wanted what’s called his PAC number. His PAC number is so that he can make a phone call. So the lawyer had asked me, like, “Who do I have to talk to to get him his PAC number.” This is prior to March 9, or -- MS. RICHMAN: August 9th. MR. : -- August 9th, I’m sorry, I’m all over the place - prior to August 9th. He said, “Yeah,” - she said, “He needs his PAC number,” just asked, “All right, I’ll find out, you know, why he didn’t get his PAC number.” Turned out he had his PAC number, so I told her the next day, I said, “He has his PAC number.” She said, “All right. He said he didn’t have it,” blah, blah. So when I asked him, I said, “Why did you tell your lawyer you don’t have it? You have it, you showed me.” He said, “No, but they said they monitor those phone calls.” I said, “Yeah. It’s the jail,” you EFTA00111616 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 know. So his lawyer then asked, how does he get an unmonitored phone call, to me. I said, “That goes on a different level, a Lieutenant or Unit Team is the only ones that could do that when they’re in Special Housing. An officer cannot do that.” So after that, I remember he kept on wanting a phone call from either Unit Team or the Lieutenant but it was never happening and then that day, I forget how it came up, but he was happy, he was like, “Yeah, I got my phone call finally.” But it wasn’t like a whole conversation, I just remember him saying it. So I know he got a phone call. I just don’t know who gave it to him and, you know, what transpired that got him that phone call, but I know he was finally like, “I got the phone call,” like happy about it. EFTA00111617 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 80 MR. : No. That I don’t know, but if I - in Special Housing, normally it’s when he’s in his cell because the phone jacks are on the tier. But one is monitored and one is unmonitored. So, if Unit Team gave it to him, you know, it was probably unmonitored. MR. : When they’re in Special Housing, yes, so that they can reach out to their lawyer and, you know, we’re not allowed to listen to that type of conversation. But, the officer can’t give him that phone call. It’s Unit Team or a supervisor and what normally happens is they give the card, you know, the lawyer’s card, they’ll call the number, “Okay. It’s here,” and then, “Here,” and give the phone through his slot and then it, you know, it cuts off at a certain time. MR. : Now being that he was with his lawyers all day and that phone call comes around and what if it wasn’t his lawyer that he EFTA00111618 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 called, what if it was somebody else? Is that-. MR. : I mean, I'm not going to say it's not possible. It's definitely possible, but from what I've seen, when people get phone calls, because I'm not allowed to give unmonitored phone calls, but what I've seen is, like I said, they'll dial it for the inmate and wait and then, "Oh, Attorney Rodriguez office," "Oh, okay, you have a client so and so?" "Okay," and then they hand it. So, but if they have the number written on a piece of paper and you call it and the inmate tells you, "You're my father," and I'm like, "Just say that you're Attorney So and So," how do I know. You know what I'm saying? There's no way to - so I'm sure there's a lot of inmates that make unmonitored phone calls and trick whoever is giving it to them, but, as far as I know, that's how they're able to judge if it's an attorney or not. MR. : Were you asked to monitor that call that night and be with him when he made that phone call that night? MR. : No. Not - no. EFTA00111619 EFTA00111620 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 83 EFTA00111621 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111622 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111623 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 86 EFTA00111624 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111625 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 88 EFTA00111626 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111627 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111628 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 EFTA00111629 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111630 EFTA00111631 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 EFTA00111632 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 EFTA00111633 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111634 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 97 EFTA00111635 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111636 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 99 EFTA00111637 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111638 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111639 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 EFTA00111640 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 103 EFTA00111641 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111642 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 MR. : Yes. What happens is you do one line in the X when they call you and it’s right, you make the line, you hang up. When you get the paperwork and check it and it matches what they called in, you do the second line. So this is a must. This, I don’t know if there’s a rule about it, but I know since I’ve worked that post, you know, I was always taught that that’s how you do it, make sure unit is correct because sometimes people - if you work overtime on one unit, then all of a sudden you go to another, you might forget and put that unit’s number on it. So, the units are right, the dates are right time, number, you got two signatures, we’re good. EFTA00111643 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 EFTA00111644 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 107 EFTA00111645 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 EFTA00111646 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 EFTA00111647 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 EFTA00111648 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 111 EFTA00111649 EFTA00111650 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 EFTA00111651 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111652 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 days a week and two days a week I work somewhere else. I have access to it because I'm there three days a week. So you still have access to it. So it's possible that someone had access because they don't just take it immediately, your access, you know, if you're there three days a week, you're going to have it. So, it's possible, yes, but as far as knowing if they did, I don't know. I don't know who has access, who doesn't. Like I had access for a long time, then they took it because I stopped working here for a while, so I don't know who has it and who doesn't. I don't even know who takes it and gives it, to be honest. MR. : And have you ever experience anything where the person calling in the number actually says, "Hey, what number am I supposed to have?" MR. : No. EFTA00111653 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111654 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111655 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 throwing up crazy, like ridiculously and there’s blood in the throw up and everything. So I call for Medical. Medical is like, “Bring him to me, you know, bring him to Medical.” I bring him to Medical. We’re not going to change the count for your unit, we know where he’s at. MR. : We visually see him in Medical, we know he’s in Medical. So, although you may only have 72 people on your unit now because on is in Medical, we may say, “ghost count, we know where he’s out, we got a visual, just keep his as 73 on your unit,” instead of doing a whole new SENTRY, that he’s in Medical and we’re going to send him right back. MR. : So for the 4:00 p.m. count, if Fernandez is moved at 3:15 to R&D dry cell, would that be a reason to do a ghost count at 4:00 p.m.? MR. : In my opinion, yes and no. I say yes because, yeah, it’s possible. No, because the log is updated. So if you had time to update the log and put him in -. MR. : What if the log is not EFTA00111656 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 EFTA00111657 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 EFTA00111658 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 121 access to it and they’ll tell Control, “I got it. Don’t worry about it, I know you’re busy, you’re doing everything else, I got it.” But if you have someone working the SHU, which is very possible because of all the overtime, who doesn’t have access or doesn’t know how to do it, they’re not doing it, Control has to -. MR. : Well, regardless, a conversation they’re going to have because Control looks on camera, pops the door, they don’t know that inmate, what numbers he is, where - you know, so they would have to SHU and say, “Inmate so and so, what’s his reg number? What’s his ID number so I can do all the paperwork for it?” You know, you can't just EFTA00111659 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 EFTA00111660 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 123 EFTA00111661 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 he tried to put the drugs in his mouth or you’re seeing him through a cell and you’re like, “LT, I got one, he just swallowed drugs,” or, “I need you to respond.” Then the Lieutenant makes the decision to put him on dry cell. I’m not just putting someone randomly on dry cell. MR. : Yeah. MR. : So, the Control may know over the radio or may not because if all I say is, “I need a Lieutenant in Special Housing and a Lieutenant come up and I’m verbal and everything to him and I’m not saying it over the radio and the Lieutenant is like, “All right, put him on dry cell, come on,” you know, “Strip him out and everything.” Control don’t know what’s going on, they just know I asked for a Lieutenant. You know what I’m saying? MR. : So my questions is though, when they’re actually making the move down to dry cell, is that on the radio, “Control, can you pop the door? We’re moving him to dry cell,” or is that always a phone call? MR. □: Like I said, obviously EFTA00111662 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 Control has to know to pop the door, but you might not be telling them everything over the radio. MR. : Right. MR. : You might just say - there’s a bell on the outside of the door, so the Lieutenant rings the bell, “Control, I need the 27 door popped for Lieutenant.” They’re going to pop it because they look on camera, the Lieutenant is there. Now once he’s inside, the door is locked, “Control, we need 27 popped, exiting with one.” Now we’re exiting. Now from there, if I’m in the Control Center, I’m calling SHU, like, “Yo, is that inmate coming back? What’s going on?” So and so. But everybody works different. MR. : All right, so, I guess this will be my last questions. MR. : There’s no protocol exactly on how to communicate that movement because you don’t know if he’s coming back, you don’t know. I’m assuming if an inmate went to R&D for dry cell, they would put him on what’s called the X-ray machine because there’s a machine in R&D that reads the body, like the TSA machines. EFTA00111663 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 Because you could do dry cell in Special Housing, you don’t have to move them for that. If you have an empty cell, you shut the water off, you put them in dry cell in Special Housing with the Lieutenant. So the fact that they went to R&D, it was probably to do a body scan to see if something was in his stomach or that area. MR. : And if you’re doing that, it’s possible he’s going back so you’re not going to tell Control right away because if I don’t see nothing on the scan, the Lieutenant may say, “I’m not putting him,” you know, and that’s it. keyed out of SHU. Best guess, of when it, you know, what happened basically. EFTA00111664 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE EFTA00111665 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 EFTA00111666 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 1 EFTA00111667 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 ## CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: EFTA00111668